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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Marlo a Thief (8 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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BarryFernelius
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Quote:
On 2011-05-12 14:21, RS1963 wrote:
A well known card man once said about Marlo something like this. "If you think Ed was a thief you're probably right. If you think he was a magical genius, you're probably right" I won't say who it was. Yes he was a student of Ed Marlo's and is still around.


This is a good summary, pithy and true.

Trini, have you read the David Solomon book that I referenced earlier? ASW summarized the gist of David's position. The book contains enough of the supporting material that you could find the rest of the evidence and come to your own decision. Eugene Burger's interview with David at the end of the book is the place to start.

There is a difference between "magicians helping magicians" and "magicians spoon feeding other magicians." If you have a genuine interest in this topic, you'll have to take the next steps yourself. Good luck!
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."

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MagicT
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Barry,
No I have not read the Soloman book. Also, I am not looking to be "spoon fed". I was merely asking a simple question. Also, regarding your statement about taking the next steps, I think I have by asking here.

Barry and Vlad,
You both seem to think that I am only asking here and not doing any additional research. Well, this is not true. I am also looking elsewhere for clues, answers, ideas, etc. I was not aware I had to explain myself to you.

Vlad,
Regarding your vocabulary, you have a large one, and it is impressive. However, I feel you analyzed my initial posts, as well as in the PG thread, too much. There really is no need for that when all I was doing was asking a question. If you know nothing of the topic, then why reply? If you have some other resources to share, then do so, which you did, however, there is a way to do it. Also, I did not say that I am NOT looking to grow as a magician. You are putting words in my mouth.


ASW,
Whoever you are, thank you so much for the freebie. This was very informational. Also, thank you for not judging me or telling me to "do your own research". You are a gentleman. Are you French?


R.E. Byrnes,
Thank you as well for understanding my point.




Thanks,
Trini
Trini Montes
BarryFernelius
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Read Solomon's Mind. David Solomon makes a convincing case for the idea that Marlo had a habit of publishing other magician's work as his own. This was particularly true near the end of Marlo's life. David talks about some of his material that Marlo published as his own. David also says that he's not the only person to observe this behavior, citing examples from Steve Draun and Herb Zarrow. David also maintains that Marlo was a card magic genius, a veritable walking encyclopedia of knowledge.
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."

-Leonard Bernstein
jhostler
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Trini -

The relatively elemental nature of magic (technique, method, and effect) tends to invite independent – and often entirely innocent – reinvention/re-creation. Fads (ref. ACAAN) intensify this phenomenon by focusing magicians’ collective efforts on a narrow range of effects at any given time. Over the years, it has become more difficult to differentiate between the innocent and not-so-innocent stuff. As such, many folks have adopted a sort of “publish or perish” (to ***ize the phrase) approach: he/she who publishes first gets the credit. This mentality has contributed to many ongoing (and – in the grand scheme of things – petty) magical squabbles… including those involving Marlo. Unless you hung with the man, you'll have a tough time wringing a cogent story from all the bile.

BTW - If you're interested in hearing all sides of the story, be sure to include Racherbaumer on your list...
Jonathan Townsend
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What possible "pride" is there in publishing minor variations on old themes when it simply puts your name on the torrent files and your work on youtube?

On the Marlo topic - after the Zarrow/Shank thing... there's some serious discomfort here.

The word from his local was that he could and did do fine magic for people and really wanted to explore what could be done using the tools at hand and new tools as needed. I feel that his body of work is due for a critical review and sorting so his own contributions to our craft can be recognized and put in perspective - leaving off the personal issues. That would mean a serious vetting of all his published works and claims in light of extant literature and works "underground" at the time. Such would separate the man's work from the background and context. Leaving off however much vain and petty one might wind up with in one pile I suspect there will be a significant amount of clever and interesting and useful things found that were his own works which we can admire and use as we go forward.
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Up_in_smoke
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I think Vlad makes some very thought provocating and intelligent posts, however on this occasion I feel he over stepped the mark.

"But frankly Trini, how does this topic further your growth as a magician"

Anybody on this forum can ask any question they want to, and should not have to justify why he feels they should be 'let in' on information that other magician have. If I had got the same response from a question, I would have been annoyed. Does everything have to be about furthering your growth as a magician, can you not want to know something just because you want to know.

what I'm tryiing to say, to coin a phrase,

wind your neck in

Sean
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Thomas Wayne
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I can't speak to the question Marlo being a thief "in card magic", but I know he never gave my lawnmower back...

TW
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
bishthemagish
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Quote:
On 2011-05-14 12:36, BarryFernelius wrote:
Read Solomon's Mind. David Solomon makes a convincing case for the idea that Marlo had a habit of publishing other magician's work as his own. This was particularly true near the end of Marlo's life. David talks about some of his material that Marlo published as his own. David also says that he's not the only person to observe this behavior, citing examples from Steve Draun and Herb Zarrow. David also maintains that Marlo was a card magic genius, a veritable walking encyclopedia of knowledge.

Sometimes in the old school one might sit down with an older magician and learn from them. They might work on the same card problem and in this give ideas - and then later on publish those ideas. In this session ideas are exchanged and it is between the two or the group.

And then there are magicians of the old school that may think because they are the teacher - they have more right to publish the ideas. This is the old school that I grew up in and why I was very careful about the ideas I have given - knowing what to give and more important what not to give.

However in my opinion the business of who's idea is who's is really between the two or few magicians that sessioned. And it is not really the business of the open magic community and when the magic community talks about - somebody took so and so's idea - often it is nothing more than gossip.

The few that seem to know the truth were perhaps the few that were there at the time. However the stories become talked about - and when talked about often change and the gossip seems to continue.

Just a few thoughts and opinion.
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Turk
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Quote:
On 2011-05-14 14:16, Maestro wrote:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QDbzWDwXn6s/Tb......sual.jpg


Huh? I'm sorry, but I don't understand the joke...or the relevance to this Marlo thread.

Quote:
On 2011-05-14 15:10, Thomas Wayne wrote:
I can't speak to the question Marlo being a thief "in card magic", but I know he never gave my lawnmower back...

TW


Another "coffee spewing out from the nose and all over the keyboard" moment.
Magic is a vanishing Art.

This must not be Kansas anymore, Toto.

Eschew obfuscation.
Justin W
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Quote:
On 2011-05-14 15:54, Turk wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-14 14:16, Maestro wrote:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QDbzWDwXn6s/Tb......sual.jpg


Huh? I'm sorry, but I don't understand the joke...or the relevance to this Marlo thread.



Trini's being a troll. Older folks mightn't get that joke.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Troll%20Face
Jim Oliver
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Trini,

I am a big big big big big ... did I mention that I am a big fan of Marlo?

I don't have all of the facts that everyone else seem to have, all I can tell
you is what I have read in many other volumes of other peoples work.
For example the David Ben book on Zarrow. It contains many letters to and from
Zarrow and Marlo and how their friendship went from good to bad to worse.

What many folks may not realize is that at the end of Marlo's life he was dyeing
of cancer. Perhaps the cancer had spread to his brain, maybe, maybe not.
Perhaps he was just trying to get in a few more good ones before passing on.
I don't know.

All I can tell you is that the massive amount of material that he left behind is
almost 3 times the size of that of Vernon's. Whether it is all his or just some improvements
to others work does not matter to me. I just love magic and what it can mean to the
people I show it to, and Marlo's material always gets good responses from people.

Hope you find the truth to what you are seeking.

Jim Oliver
Ed Marlo rules
bishthemagish
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Quote:
On 2011-05-14 16:30, Jim Oliver wrote:
All I can tell you is that the massive amount of material that he left behind is
almost 3 times the size of that of Vernon's. Whether it is all his or just some improvements
to others work does not matter to me. I just love magic and what it can mean to the
people I show it to, and Marlo's material always gets good responses from people.

Hope you find the truth to what you are seeking.

Jim Oliver


Well said - bravo!!!!
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
Turk
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[quote]On 2011-05-14 15:58, Justin W wrote:
Quote:
***

Trini's being a troll. Older folks mightn't get that joke.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Troll%20Face


Justin,

Thanks for the explanation.

Mike

P.S. Easy on the "older folks" comments. (grin) I'm wearing my tan New Balance walking shoes and pedaling my stationary exercise bike as fast as I can. OOPS! Gotta go....Time for another shot of Metamusil. (double grin) Hmmm, I wonder where I (mis)placed my VHS tape of "Cocoon"? (Probably in the micorwave or freezer...)
Magic is a vanishing Art.

This must not be Kansas anymore, Toto.

Eschew obfuscation.
MagicT
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Thank you Jim for your post. Very informative and very much appreciated. I will definitely look to reading the book. Sounds very interesting.




Thanks,
Trini
Trini Montes
Jeff Corn
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Gotta say, I'm glad everyone decided to stay on topic and actually give reasons why Marlo was considered a thief for discussion, instead of breaking down into child-like bickering that will never go anywhere.
Yes, that is my real name. Yes, I am a real person. No, you probably won't agree with me.
Chappo
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Quote:
On 2011-05-14 20:32, Jeff Corn wrote:
Gotta say, I'm glad everyone decided to stay on topic and actually give reasons why Marlo was considered a thief for discussion, instead of breaking down into child-like bickering that will never go anywhere.


Give it time Jeff. *lurk lurk lurk* It's a given on the Café unfortunately.
The rules of a sleight of hand artist, Are three, and all others are vain,

The 1st & the 2nd are practice... And the 3rd one is practice again


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Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2011-05-14 16:30, Jim Oliver wrote:...Whether it is all his or just some improvements
to others work does not matter to me. ...


It's the matter of permissions that taints the topic. And in most fields would also taint the person's reputation, that of their work, peers, publishers and any institutions which would further such.

As far as you are concerned - I'm glad you are entertaining people with material you got by way of a favorite magician.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Jim Oliver
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Jonathan,

I can't change the printed pages of time, but I sure can enjoy the material.
I can't go back in time and point the finger at a man as great as Marlo or Vernon,
yes he has also been accused of theft. Whats done is done.

But I also notice that many of the greats of today still believe that Marlo was
pure genius, and they say so in their books. Men like Ortiz, Racherbaumer,
Ascano, Tamariz, Wesley James, and many others. Myself included, although I am not
a card great.

It does not change my perspective of the man or his material.

Jim
Ed Marlo rules
Jonathan Townsend
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Jim,

The report I got from someone who visited Marlo's hometown was that he did magic for people and they enjoyed it.
That's why I'm just keeping a tight focus on audiences and performing for folks who enjoy seeing you do the tricks.

Best wishes,

Jon
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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