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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Speaking of Philly Middleweights... (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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LobowolfXXX
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Bernard Hopkins is going to try tomorrow night to turn back the clock in epic fashion, when he takes on Jean Pascal in a world light heavyweight championship fights (Hopkins ruled the middleweight division for years before losing the title and moving up in weight). Hopkins is 46 years old, and fought a draw with Pascal late last year. To put it in perspective, when George Foreman regained the heavyweight title in 1994, some 20 years after he first won it against Ali and more than 15 years since his first retirement, Foreman was 45. Hopkins, IMO, is the most impressive fighter in this age range in history.

His post-age-40 fights include a dominating win over world light heavyweight champ Antonio Tarver, an easy win over 35-year old Winky Wright, who hadn't lost in 8 years, a split-decision loss of Joe Calzaghe, whom he knocked down, an absolute dismantling of previously unbeaten Kelly Pavlik, easy wins over former North American middleweight champ Enrique Ornelas and former pound-for-pound best Roy Jones Jr. (4 years Hopkins's junior), and the draw with Pascal.

But I think Pascal beats him this time.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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I agree. But one small correction. Foreman won his title from Joe Frazier, not Ali. It was Ali who took the title from Foreman at the legendary "Rumble in the Jungle" in Zaire. Foreman never beat Ali in the ring.

Good thoughts,

Bob
LobowolfXXX
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Thanks for that catch...yes, the Zaire fight was the only time Ali and Foreman met in the ring...Ali got his title back, and also took Foreman's aura of invincibility.

Much as I liked Jimmy Young, I don't think he would have stood a chance against Foreman before Ali convinced Foreman that he was beatable.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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I think that is an excellent point. The loss in Zaire was so devastating to Foreman that he literally went into seclusion for a long period. When he finally emerged he was no longer the brooding and universally feared knockout machine that he had been before, but rather the likeable Foreman who we still know today.

The Zaire fight was the best I have ever seen.
Al Angello
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The Zaire fight turned George Foreman into a minister. I'll bet it wasn't his favorite fight.
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tommy
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God moves in mysterious ways his wonders to perform. Being a minister may have been the greatest to George Foreman.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Al Angello
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Tommy
It wasn't the ministry that rewarded him it was the George Foreman grill.
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Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2011-05-21 09:29, Al Angello wrote:
The Zaire fight turned George Foreman into a minister. I'll bet it wasn't his favorite fight.


Ummm yet again you seem to have no facts right. It was after he fought Jimmy Young in Puerto Rico before allowing himself time to acclimate. He suffered from heat stroke and had a "near death experience". It was then that he pled with God to help him. The Rumble was 1974, the fight in Puerto Rico was 1977. As a matter of fact he jokes that Young "knocked the Devil out of him". He then became an ordained minister of a church.

Sorry to bother you with things like facts.
Danny Doyle
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Al Angello
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Ali took away George's heart. He returned to the ring years later to build a gym for the kids in his church, and everything that came to him since then was just icing on the cake.
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LobowolfXXX
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Anyone see the movie "Ali" with Will Smith? Man, the guy they had playing Foreman was great. He scared me, and I was sitting in the back.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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For anyone who hasn't seen it I highly recommend the Oscar winning documentary "When We Were Kings." Truly inspirational.
LobowolfXXX
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Strongly second that recommendation. Great documentary...it really captures the sport, the personalities, the impact on Kinshasa, Zaire, improbably thrust into the world spotlight... As someone who was in Ali's presence once ('84 Olympic boxing finals), I can only say that his larger-than-life persona and magnetism cannot be adequately explained; it can only be experienced. This film does capture it, to an extent.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2011-05-21 11:47, Al Angello wrote:
Ali took away George's heart. He returned to the ring years later to build a gym for the kids in his church, and everything that came to him since then was just icing on the cake.

Well I know it won't change your opinion but George, and anyone involved with him at the time seems to think differently. But please keep on. Dates, names, facts, meaningless I guess huh?
Danny Doyle
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On 2011-05-21 12:53, mastermindreader wrote:
For anyone who hasn't seen it I highly recommend the Oscar winning documentary "When We Were Kings." Truly inspirational.


I saw HBO had a great documentry also, and am not sure of the name.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Al Angello
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Lobo
The greatest welter/middle weight fighter I ever saw was Gypsy Joe Harris. I saw him loose a 12 round decision against the great Emile Griffith at the Spectrum in 1968. I will never forget the standing ovation Sugar Ray Robinson got that night when he walking into the Spectrum, and waved.

The thing that made Gypsy Joe so great was that he could only see out of one eye his entire boxing carreer. Not only was Gypsy Joe the best fighter pound for pound I ever saw in the ring, but he clowned around most of his fights, he would stick his out his chin, put out his tongue, or put both hands behind his back daring his opponent to taks a swing at him, then he would finish with a flurry of lightning fast combinations.
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LobowolfXXX
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You saw his last fight and his only loss. That eye forced his retirement at a very young age (early 20s). I wonder how his career would have turned out. I always wondered the same about one of the very best pound-for-pounds in my memory - Salvador Sanchez.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Al Angello
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Salvador Sanchez
Was that the boxer who went to Rahway prison. Yes he not only had dynamite in both hands, but he was impervious to pain, and self destructed at a very young age.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
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LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2011-05-21 17:01, Al Angello wrote:
Salvador Sanchez was that the boxer that went to Rahway prison. Yes he not only punched like a muel, but he was impervious to pain, and self destructed at a very young age.


Sanchez won the featherweight title and dismantled Wilfredo Gomez before dying in a car accident age 23...I think you're thinking of Tony Ayala Jr., who was pretty much a 154-pound Mike Tyson...he was 22-0 with 19 knockouts, and rarely had to go past about the third round; then, with a world championship fight all but inked, he got sent to prison on a sexual assault charge, which is where he spent the next 16 years. He tried a comeback when he got out, but obviously wasn't the same. He's back in prison now. For boxing fans, it was a real shame, because given his ability, weight class, and era, there would have been superfights on the horizon... Ayala-Leonard...Ayala-Hearns...Ayala-Hagler...
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Woland
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Al, I think you might be thinking of Rubin Carter, twice convicted of a triple homicide, freed from Rahway when the 2nd verdict was overturned and prosecutors declined to go again. Bob Dylan wrote a song about him.

And I never see the name Emile Griffith without thinking of Benny Paret.
LobowolfXXX
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My favorite Dylan song.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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