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cupcakeG2 New user 8 Posts |
Recently I'm practicing his turnover change in his version of do as I do. Just wondering if any fellow magicians practicing that before? Let's share. I think it is the best change can ever devise for this purpose. Much subtle and efficient than Mexican turnover and other bottom / turnover switch.
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Martino Special user Manchester, UK 928 Posts |
Check out versions of the Curry Turnover Change.
"There's a difference between not knowing how something is done and knowing it can't be done!" - Simon Aronson
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cupcakeG2 New user 8 Posts |
Thanks martino. Armando's change is lot more natural than curry change. The curry change is quite obvious even in expert's hand.
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bobon Regular user Hyderabad .India 166 Posts |
Scoop change--??!!
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MJ Marrs Inner circle Los Angeles 1124 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-05-21 03:03, cupcakeG2 wrote: Am I missing something here. I thought that Armando only taught his stuff at small exclusive seminars. If so, then nobody should be discussing his moves on a public forum. If and when he publishes a book for the masses then it would be open for public discussion, IMHO. Respectfully, MJ |
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts |
Hey CupcakeG2, speak for yourself. I taught the Curry Turnover Change back in my first book - in 1962, been using it ever since - and it sure isn't obvious in my hands - or in the hands of others all over the world, etc. Please, speak for yourself - and you might even pick up The Classic Collection, Vol. 1, go to the Close-Up Card Magic section, and learn the move. HL. (PS: Just curious - how long have you been in magic?)
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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Medifro Inner circle Miami 1258 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-05-21 04:53, cupcakeG2 wrote: It's not. |
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts |
Yeah; don't you just love definite statements - that have no real background?!
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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SimonG-97 Special user 508 Posts |
Cupcake, ive been doing the curry turn over change as Harry describes it in CUCM and its very good, How can simply turning over a card be obvious?
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts |
Plus there's proper misdirection involved.
Posted: May 21, 2011 11:53am --------------------------------------- You can find my The Scoop Change in the Reputation-Makers section of The Classic Collection, volume 2. Why do I have the feeling that Cupcake would find it "obvious"!?
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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Justin W Special user Lawrence, KS 929 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-05-21 10:39, SimonG-97 wrote: It does look obvious in most peoples' hands because they never incorporate proper misdirection form the move. Even in an expert's hands, the move hardly stands a burn. Curry insisted that as the left hand performs the sleight, the right hand must also be occupied with something. But it is a fantastic technique when performed well. |
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Medifro Inner circle Miami 1258 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-05-21 10:27, Harry Lorayne wrote: Can't blame him Harry if he haven't read your description, or witnessed the change in the hands of someone who didn't. ~ Feras |
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Adam1975 Special user UK 900 Posts |
The Breakless Change is a refinement of the Curry change,its awesome.Its in Heirophant,the ressurection issue.Well worth any card mans time.
Ive upped my standards.Now,up yours!
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts |
Medifro: That's the thing that bothers me a bit. He posts "even in expert's hands." I would love to know which "experts" he saw doing the Curry Turnover Change. Notice that I've received no "assuage to my curiosity" response as to how long Cupcake has been in magic and how many, if any, "experts" he's seen. It's the all-consuming "definiteness" of the remark that bothers me that bit - as if he's seen it all, read my description, been in magic for many years to give him the knowledge, the expertise, therefore the right, and etc. The main problem is that a remark like that, if any fairly new people in magic took it for gospel, would hurt them -because they might decide "hey, this guy knows what he's talking about, so I'll never try that move - because it's 'quite obvious, even in expert's hands.'" Please; I really think it's important to "know whereof you speak," or keep it to yourself until you do. Sorry - my humble opinion. And, sure, of course, it bothers me a bit personally - it's as if my twenty pages and 22 photos (in TCC, vol. 1) are a large waste of my time! Again - Please!
Posted: May 21, 2011 5:22pm ------------------------------------ Incidentally, and I believe that I mentioned it way back in my original write-up in 1962, and although it has nothing to do with the "point" here - I fooled Paul Curry (who was a friend) with my Multiple Curry Turnover Change. He had, way back then, said/thought that it could be done only with one card. HL.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Funny about turnovers, both Mexican and Curry (and what evolved from it) in that serious students could easily get some basic ace assembly routines - progressive too - working using them as method.
Agreed about the Empanada(sp) turnover item being awkward to discuss. I suggest folks ask AL directly for help.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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korttihai_82 Inner circle Finland 1880 Posts |
First of all Lucero "do as I do" if you mean the routine that is on youtube from Japanese tv show isn't published at least to my knowledge. However, the move used there is published. Or at least extremely similar move is Edward Marlo’s ‘Breakless Curry Change’ (1961) which was described in ‘The Hierophant’ and can be found on page 44 of ‘The Legendary Hierophant’. Recently it was also published in Jamie Badman and Colin Miller “Underground change” e-Book. However, this is not the "scoop type switch" Lucero uses but other rather similar that he uses in many routines.
The scoop move is also variation of allready published moves with some additions and technical refinements. Greg Wilson was the first person I saw to use a move like this on his Card Stunts VHS in Joker under box routine. Wilson uses it just to switch a card while it is scooped up from the table. Also Rene Lavand from Argentina uses very similar move and has many variations on it. (Rene Lavand – My Life page 28-29 and 83-85) What Lucero seems to have done is devised some devious applications on the move that I cant get into details on here. His work however seems to go much further than anything else published on the move. The consept itself dates more back that Lucero so in that sense, I don't see any problems discussing the move or its possibilities. However, the details and changes done to the move and Luceros applications of the move into routines, are his and should be respected. J-M |
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Jeff Corn Inner circle Las Vegas 1190 Posts |
If you're wanting to use Armando's work, then he is most definitely the person you need to talk to about it. He's very easy to find if you're in Vegas or on Facebook.
Yes, that is my real name. Yes, I am a real person. No, you probably won't agree with me.
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Magicmaven Inner circle 1235 Posts |
I don't have the book in front of me, but in The Classic Magic of Larry Jennings he covers a move very similar to what armando uses in the empanada, and it is rather different from the curry change, in mechanics at least. From what I remember, the Curry change involves much more finger action than the Jennings move (I don't remember the name, so that's the only way I can refer to it).
rmaxgoodwin.com
https://rmaxgoodwin.com/ |
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Chris Bruce Loyal user Canada 213 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-05-21 19:42, Magicmaven wrote: It is the Modified Curry Change that he uses in Synchronicity. He prefers to use the forefinger for the action instead of the second. That book is packed with great stuff its a wonder you don't see more of it performed. |
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cupcakeG2 New user 8 Posts |
Thanks for all your comments. Harry, yes I do read your description in Close-up Card Magic Chapter V. I used to use this move as well. I think this is a decent move. But there is an inherent angle problem esp in the left side. A small break can occasionally be flashed and the way the third finger pushes the original bottom card on the table is unnatural.
I have seen Daryl performed it in Encyclopaedia of Card Sleights Vol 7. By no means offensive to Harry and other magicians, I know it might bother you a bit. I have a great respect to the card men and I honestly think your book has good description on the subject. However, I think the move is obvious in the sense that magicians can always recognize the move due to the third finger pushes and the break. Of course in a live performance to laymen, or if misdirection applies properly, it can hide the move. However, it comes down to the point which Tommy Wonder said in his Books of Wonder, before we use "misdirection", should we consider whether we could further work on the structure of the magic to find a suitable place to execute the sleight, the sleight shall stay in the shadow (natural flow) of the trick and no obvious misdirection needed to be applied? I think this comment applies to sleights as well. I have been in magic for 5 years up to now. Still in a humble pursuit in rediscovering old sleights, performing and constructing new effects. When I see the performance of Lucero, I think the sleight is enhanced. The same effect achieved while it looks more subtle. Thanks for korttihai, Magicmaven and others for pointing to various literature on that. |
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