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gdw
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Quote:
On 2011-05-26 23:16, EsnRedshirt wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-26 23:05, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-26 21:33, EsnRedshirt wrote:
Yep, he had a D in front of his name when he was a senator, therefore he was anti-gun.

For the record, though a lot of people here consider me to be a radical liberal, I do believe in the right to bear arms. (Provided you're not a criminal or insane.)


BUT do you believe in registration of firearms? Do yo believe in "gun control"? And I bet the answer to these simple questions show you for the radical liberal you really are LOL

Danny, do you think anyone who can afford it should be allowed to own a howitzer?


No, clearly only a privileged few.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
balducci
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Quote:
On 2011-05-26 23:05, Dannydoyle wrote:

BUT do you believe in registration of firearms? Do yo believe in "gun control"? And I bet the answer to these simple questions show you for the radical liberal you really are LOL

I'm not sure, but I think the United States might be the only nation that ties conservatism to guns in any particular way. Well, that is certainly your prerogative.

But consider, there are certainly liberal nations with high rates of gun ownership. And the most conservative nations in the world (e.g., like Saudi Arabia) have very strict gun control laws.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Magnus Eisengrim
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According to Wikipedia


Country↓ Guns/100 residents (2007)↓ Rank

United States 88.8 1
Yemen 54.8 2
Switzerland 45.7 3
Serbia 37.8 4
Cyprus 36.4 5
Saudi Arabia 35.0 6
Iraq 34.2 7
Finland 32.0 8
Uruguay 31.8 9
Sweden 31.6 10
Norway 31.3 11
France 31.2 12
Canada 30.8 13
Austria 30.4 14
Germany 30.3 15

I'd have to agree with Balducci. There does not appear to be a liberal/conservative trend here.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Dreadnought
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Quote:
On 2011-05-26 22:58, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-26 22:54, ed rhodes wrote:
Yes, even having served their time there are still things that are and should be denied.


So, when an armed invader breaks into their house, it's essentially "**** you" to the home owner?

Gotta love how "loosely" some play with the idea of something NOT being infringed.


Do you wake up in the morning thinking this stuff up, wondering what fire to throw the gas on? And you call this discussion?
Peace

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Pakar Ilusi
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A gun is just a tool really.

More murders worldwide are committed with kitchen knives and screwdrivers because they're more readily available.

Check it up if you don't believe me.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
balducci
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Quote:
On 2011-05-27 00:01, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
A gun is just a tool really.

More murders worldwide are committed with kitchen knives and screwdrivers because they're more readily available.

Check it up if you don't believe me.

Together, or each on their own? I can believe knives on their own are used to commit more murders than guns, but I would have to challenge you on screwdrivers.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Pakar Ilusi
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You are challenging me on screwdrivers?

Like in a duel? Smile

But seriously...

I meant knives on their own, screwdrivers lesser, more in my country...
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
landmark
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Quote:
On 2011-05-26 23:05, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-26 21:33, EsnRedshirt wrote:
Yep, he had a D in front of his name when he was a senator, therefore he was anti-gun.

For the record, though a lot of people here consider me to be a radical liberal, I do believe in the right to bear arms. (Provided you're not a criminal or insane.)


BUT do you believe in registration of firearms? Do yo believe in "gun control"? And I bet the answer to these simple questions show you for the radical liberal you really are LOL

Believing in registration of firearms means one is a "radical liberal?" A bit of extreme rhetoric, even for you Danny.
acesover
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Quote:
On 2011-05-26 22:58, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-26 22:54, ed rhodes wrote:
Yes, even having served their time there are still things that are and should be denied.


So, when an armed invader breaks into their house, it's essentially "**** you" to the home owner?

Gotta love how "loosely" some play with the idea of something NOT being infringed.


Have you ever heard the term "repeat offenders". They are probably the biggest portion of all crimes commited.

Do you think child molesters after serving their time should run a day care center?

I am pro gun all the way...but there are some people who should not have fire arms.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
gdw
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Quote:
On 2011-05-27 07:46, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-26 23:05, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-26 21:33, EsnRedshirt wrote:
Yep, he had a D in front of his name when he was a senator, therefore he was anti-gun.

For the record, though a lot of people here consider me to be a radical liberal, I do believe in the right to bear arms. (Provided you're not a criminal or insane.)


BUT do you believe in registration of firearms? Do yo believe in "gun control"? And I bet the answer to these simple questions show you for the radical liberal you really are LOL

Believing in registration of firearms means one is a "radical liberal?" A bit of extreme rhetoric, even for you Danny.


No, but who would let such a person watch their kids? Also, what does running a daycare have to do with a person's right to defend themselves?

Gun ownership is not a right in america, but now a privilege. Hell, I'd say all constitutional rights are now treated like privileges now.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
EsnRedshirt
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When you commit a felony, you forfeit your rights. Otherwise you could not be incarcerated ("Life, Liberty, and pursuit of happiness.") It's then up to the State (or Nation, depending) on which rights should be restored. Ex-felons can't vote in many states, either.
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.

* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt.
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2011-05-27 10:37, EsnRedshirt wrote:
When you commit a felony, you forfeit your rights. Otherwise you could not be incarcerated ("Life, Liberty, and pursuit of happiness.") It's then up to the State (or Nation, depending) on which rights should be restored. Ex-felons can't vote in many states, either.


When convicted you may have some rights suspended, but that's not quite the same as "you forfeit your rights". (The notable exception, of course is capital offenses, where this still occurs.)

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
acesover
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Quote:
On 2011-05-27 09:25, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-27 07:46, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-26 23:05, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-26 21:33, EsnRedshirt wrote:
Yep, he had a D in front of his name when he was a senator, therefore he was anti-gun.

For the record, though a lot of people here consider me to be a radical liberal, I do believe in the right to bear arms. (Provided you're not a criminal or insane.)


BUT do you believe in registration of firearms? Do yo believe in "gun control"? And I bet the answer to these simple questions show you for the radical liberal you really are LOL

Believing in registration of firearms means one is a "radical liberal?" A bit of extreme rhetoric, even for you Danny.


No, but who would let such a person watch their kids? Also, what does running a daycare have to do with a person's right to defend themselves?

Gun ownership is not a right in america, but now a privilege. Hell, I'd say all constitutional rights are now treated like privileges now.




Clever how you left the post off tht I ws responding to when you posted the above. Just to include it again here it is:

gdw asks:

Do you mean a convicted criminal, after "serving" their "time?" So, they aren't allowed to defend themselves and their homes, even after being "rehabilitated" by the "justice" system? Just to clarify.

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Well I clarified it and you chose to ignore it but added something else to derail the answer.

The question you ask about letting someone like that watch your children is irrelevant and you know it. It is more of a question as to whether this person has a right to watch them. The answer is NO.

Just like certain crimes after being commited by a person their right to pocess a firearm should be and is in many cases taken away from them.

I laugh at the term rehabilitated in one of your posts. All of the prople let out of prison are supposed to be rehabilitated...what a joke. Most end up back in a short time. So as usual you are just stirring the pot trying to muddy the waters. Your question was asked and answered but you did not like the answer so you tried to side track your original question which you thought was clever. Sorry to disappoint but it was a dumb questionto start with.

Now I hope that clarifies it.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
Magnus Eisengrim
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@acesover

It was shown a long time ago that your original post was predicated on outright falsehoods. Are you at least going to acknowledge that this whole discussion began with lies?

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2011-05-27 07:46, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-26 23:05, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-26 21:33, EsnRedshirt wrote:
Yep, he had a D in front of his name when he was a senator, therefore he was anti-gun.

For the record, though a lot of people here consider me to be a radical liberal, I do believe in the right to bear arms. (Provided you're not a criminal or insane.)


BUT do you believe in registration of firearms? Do yo believe in "gun control"? And I bet the answer to these simple questions show you for the radical liberal you really are LOL

Believing in registration of firearms means one is a "radical liberal?" A bit of extreme rhetoric, even for you Danny.


So now asking questions is "extreme rheoric"? Wow.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
gdw
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Acesover, actually, that was completely unintentional. I merely quoted the wrong post. To provide actual clarity an context, here is what it should have looked like:

Quote:
On 2011-05-27 09:25, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-27 09:13, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-26 22:58, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-26 22:54, ed rhodes wrote:
Yes, even having served their time there are still things that are and should be denied.


So, when an armed invader breaks into their house, it's essentially "**** you" to the home owner?

Gotta love how "loosely" some play with the idea of something NOT being infringed.


Have you ever heard the term "repeat offenders". They are probably the biggest portion of all crimes commited.

Do you think child molesters after serving their time should run a day care center?

I am pro gun all the way...but there are some people who should not have fire arms.


No, but who would let such a person watch their kids? Also, what does running a daycare have to do with a person's right to defend themselves?

Gun ownership is not a right in america, but now a privilege. Hell, I'd say all constitutional rights are now treated like privileges now.


There was no intent to be clever, or obfuscate by leaving anything out. I would think that you, at least, would have been able to put it to gether to get the proper context, as I was responding to what you said.

Just in case it's still unclear to anyone:

I was not ignoring anything, but rather responding directly to your "clarification."

"question you ask about letting someone like that watch your children is irrelevant and you know it."

YOU were the one who brought up a child molester running a day care. No, they do not have a right to watch anyone's children, in fact NO ONE does, which is exactly why the issue of whether or not you would ALLOW them to is relevant.

No one HAS to sell a felon a gun either, the question is whether or not they have the right to own one, and to defend themselves and their home.

"I laugh at the term rehabilitated in one of your posts. All of the prople let out of prison are supposed to be rehabilitated...what a joke. Most end up back in a short time. So as usual you are just stirring the pot trying to muddy the waters. "

There was a reason I put the word in quotations. Your accusation about trying to stir the pot, and muddy the waters falls flat, as I was, at least I thought, also making a comment on the idea that prison "rehabilitates" (see, I did it again with the quotes) people.

My point was that, within the context of the same system that is taking away their "right" to own guns, they have served their "punishment," the purpose of which is, if they are released, to have "rehabilitated" them. To not "allow" them to own guns says as much about the idea of it being a "right" as it does the efficacy of, and their confidence in their own, "judicial" system.

Notice the use of quotation marks again? I'm using them when I think the term is being used loosely, or laughably, among other things.
Hope that clarifies things for you.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
R.S.
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Quote:
On 2011-05-27 00:01, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
A gun is just a tool really.

More murders worldwide are committed with kitchen knives and screwdrivers because they're more readily available.

Check it up if you don't believe me.


Hi Pakar,

So then if a gun was available (rather than the kinife or screwdriver) those murders would definitely still have been committed, as clearly the intent to harm/kill was there from the start. But with a gun the task would have been so much easier (simply pulling a trigger vs the messy business of stabbing (probably repeatedly) with a knife or screwdriver). The question is, how many murders DIDN'T get committed because the knife/screwdriver was too barbaric and a gun wasn't available (but would have been used if it was)?

Making guns available wouldn't have reduced the overall number of murders, it probably would have INCREASED the number.


Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
landmark
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Quote:
On 2011-05-27 12:44, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-27 07:46, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-26 23:05, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-26 21:33, EsnRedshirt wrote:
Yep, he had a D in front of his name when he was a senator, therefore he was anti-gun.

For the record, though a lot of people here consider me to be a radical liberal, I do believe in the right to bear arms. (Provided you're not a criminal or insane.)


BUT do you believe in registration of firearms? Do yo believe in "gun control"? And I bet the answer to these simple questions show you for the radical liberal you really are LOL

Believing in registration of firearms means one is a "radical liberal?" A bit of extreme rhetoric, even for you Danny.


So now asking questions is "extreme rheoric"? Wow.

"I bet the answer to these simple questions show you for the radical liberal you really are." By that standard, 78% of the US in 1990 were radical liberals. Even you don't believe that.
gdw
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Quote:
On 2011-05-27 18:44, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-27 00:01, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
A gun is just a tool really.

More murders worldwide are committed with kitchen knives and screwdrivers because they're more readily available.

Check it up if you don't believe me.


Hi Pakar,

So then if a gun was available (rather than the kinife or screwdriver) those murders would definitely still have been committed, as clearly the intent to harm/kill was there from the start. But with a gun the task would have been so much easier (simply pulling a trigger vs the messy business of stabbing (probably repeatedly) with a knife or screwdriver). The question is, how many murders DIDN'T get committed because the knife/screwdriver was too barbaric and a gun wasn't available (but would have been used if it was)?

Making guns available wouldn't have reduced the overall number of murders, it probably would have INCREASED the number.


Ron


I don't think reduction was specifically his point.

As for the rest, it is highly unlikely that those same murders would have been committed with guns were more available. Stabbings tend to be crimes of passion, unless these people all had their guns on their hips, loaded, safety off, they likely would not have gone with the gun.
The knives and screwdrivers are used because they are immediately at hand, and they are grabbed in the moment.

As for min passionate stabbings, what a lovely concept. The stabbing instrument would have been intentionally choosen, probably over the gun for specific reasons, noise, etc.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
critter
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Quote:
Making guns available wouldn't have reduced the overall number of murders, it probably would have INCREASED the number.


Ron


That's your opinion. I don't agree. There were plenty of nasty murders long before guns even existed. Knives, poison, swords, arrows... where there's a kill there's a way. I've often said if I was to kill someone out of hatred or vengeance then it would be much more satisfying to do it with my bare hands than with an impersonal bullet. Not that I would kill anyone for those reasons. Just sayin'.
I don't think it can be proven one way or another whether there would be more murders with or without guns because there are other factors beyond merely weapon type involved in murder rates. Poverty, political climate, bad romances. Meh.
I'm hungry. I'mma go get me some of them french fried potaters.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
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