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magicfish
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Me too. Although I like saurkraut.
balducci
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Quote:
On 2011-06-01 23:39, magicfish wrote:

Landmark, I'm sure you are a good man. I don't know you from adam, but it is my opinion that if you were flying the enola gay it would mean that you were a military man and ahad made a commitment to serve your country, and that you would feel as strongly as any in that military operation that saved the planet that this bomb would save hundreds of thousands of lives. It is my opinion that as pilot of said plane, you would be all too aware of the japanese no surrender policy, and the sensless deaths of countless thousands of young men to save the world from an evil empire bent on world domination.It is my opinion that you would not only drop the bomb, but would feel justified in doing so.
This is my opinion not of landmark the Café member, but of landmark- pilot of the enola gay.

The pilot Paul Tibbets of the Enola Gay didn't drop the bomb, its bombardier Maj. Thomas Ferebee did.

http://www.mishalov.com/Ferebee.html

:)
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
landmark
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Magicfish,


1) There's very little that I would be willing to do die for, and few of us can be sure about what our future actions would be. What I am certain about however, is that if forced to choose between killing hundreds of thousands of people or dying myself, I would choose the latter. The issue is not whether you or others think the bomb was necessary; I couldn't and wouldn't do it.

2)Not every officer in the service ends up thinking that what they did even in WWII was noble or necessary. At least three famous WWII fighter bombers I can think of off the top of my head became near pacifists and intense critics of American foreign policy--Howard Zinn, Joseph Heller, and George McGovern. So it's not a given that being in the military means you agree with everything that happens.

But really I forget what the point here was. Following orders? I think I stated before that I don't envy the cops being in such a position. And if told to arrest dancing protestors, who knows I might do that for my family's sake. But it doesn't mean I think it's right.
balducci
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So the conversation has somehow morphed from dancing to the atomic bomb? This calls for Atomic Bomb Dance!
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
The Burnaby Kid
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Gdw-

Were you hoping for a different response? The seeds of totalitarianism were planted a long time ago. At this point people are either afraid to say something that'll draw the ire of the goose-steppers, or else they're goose-stepping themselves.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
magicfish
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Wow, now protecting monuments and having law and order is equated to Naziism? yikes.
The Burnaby Kid
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When a couple of people are silently dancing -- if you can even call it that, it was more like a swaying hug -- when a couple of people are doing that, and the cops come in and put handcuffs and choke holds on people... there's a very, very big problem. We're talking about the spirit of free expression getting stomped on needlessly. I wonder what would have happened to Rosa Parks in this climate?

But hey, it's your country. Usually it's the same people happily applauding this stuff who are quick to talk about all the freedoms Americans have, which is ironic to say the least, but whatever. We've got our own problems up here, as a reading of the aftermath of the G-20 summit makes plain.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2011-06-02 05:46, Andrew Musgrave wrote:
Gdw-

Were you hoping for a different response? The seeds of totalitarianism were planted a long time ago. At this point people are either afraid to say something that'll draw the ire of the goose-steppers, or else they're goose-stepping themselves.


DING DING DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!! TELL THEN WHAT HE HAS WON JOHNNY...

Lord it took only a few pages for some fool to compare the cops to Nazis. Nice. As I call it 'reductio ad Hitlerum'. (not sure if that is an actual term but it should be if it isn't.) It is better put as "Godwins Law". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1 (100%)." In other words, Godwin put forth the hyperbolic observation that, given enough time, in any online discussion—regardless of topic or scope—someone inevitably criticizes some point made in the discussion by comparing it to beliefs held by Hitler and the Nazis.

Godwin's law is often cited in online discussions as a deterrent against the use of arguments in the widespread Reductio ad Hitlerum form.
(HEY REductio ad Hitlerum is there!)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum

Yea cops who enforce laws put there by a republic are goose stepping. Lord you guys are funny. Though I also know that when you must resort to such intellectualy bankrupt statements, the arguement is lost.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
The Burnaby Kid
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I was talking about oppressive governments in general, not Nazi Germany. That's all you.

And, incidentally, improperly invoking Godwin's Law is itself considered poor rhetorical form, as it's seen as attempt to stifle discussion.

You, erm, did READ that wikipedia article you posted, yeah?

PS: Normally I'm not one to point out typographical errors, but in this case I'm make an exception. Danny, if you're going to call somebody "intellectualy bankrupt", you might want to learn to spell it right.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2011-06-02 17:54, Andrew Musgrave wrote:
I was talking about oppressive governments in general, not Nazi Germany. That's all you.

And, incidentally, improperly invoking Godwin's Law is itself considered poor rhetorical form, as it's seen as attempt to stifle discussion.

You, erm, did READ that wikipedia article you posted, yeah?

PS: Normally I'm not one to point out typographical errors, but in this case I'm make an exception. Danny, if you're going to call somebody "intellectualy bankrupt", you might want to learn to spell it right.


YOU WIN THE BONOUS PRIZE!!!!!! When you can't have an actual point, be critical of spelling!! That instantly makes it so you actually have a point!

Wanna go for the trifecta?

Oh so you were NOT talking about the Nazis? So ALL oppressive governments "goose step"? Come on that is laughable. You can hit the trifecta in 3 posts. Come on I have confidence in you.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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Although I will concede that the Urban Dictionary simply refers to goose stepping as blindly following. So maybe you have not won as much as I thought at first.

(Although to be pick nits which you OBVIOUSLY like to do there is no hyphen.)
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
The Burnaby Kid
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Quote:
On 2011-06-02 18:03, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-06-02 17:54, Andrew Musgrave wrote:
I was talking about oppressive governments in general, not Nazi Germany. That's all you.

And, incidentally, improperly invoking Godwin's Law is itself considered poor rhetorical form, as it's seen as attempt to stifle discussion.

You, erm, did READ that wikipedia article you posted, yeah?

PS: Normally I'm not one to point out typographical errors, but in this case I'm make an exception. Danny, if you're going to call somebody "intellectualy bankrupt", you might want to learn to spell it right.


YOU WIN THE BONOUS PRIZE!!!!!! When you can't have an actual point, be critical of spelling!! That instantly makes it so you actually have a point!


Danny, it was a friendly suggestion. Unless you enjoy coming across like the "Get a brain morans!" or "Make English America's Offical Language" guys...?

Quote:
Wanna go for the trifecta?

Oh so you were NOT talking about the Nazis? So ALL oppressive governments "goose step"? Come on that is laughable. You can hit the trifecta in 3 posts. Come on I have confidence in you.


Read for yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goose_step

It both predates Nazi Germany and survived after Nazi Germany's fall.

Look, if you're so afraid to address the idea that something's wrong when the police are slamming people to the ground and choke-holding them when they're expressing themselves in a peaceful, non-violent, inoffensive and non-obstructive manner in a public location, then go ahead and do whatever you've got to do.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
The Burnaby Kid
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It's not uncommon to hyphenate if the term is used as a phrasal adjective or a verb, or if there's a chance for any confusion brought on by potential dangling modifiers.

And which is it, Danny? Is nitpicking grammar and/or spelling poor form or good form? You went from zero to hypocrite pretty fast there.

In any case, if you're happy to have the cops enforce the law in this manner, I guess there's not much more to be said.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
Dannydoyle
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Wow is it not possible to change a position in light of more evidence in your perfectly spelllleddd world? It is hypokryitcallwQ to find out that my position was not entirely right? Wow. So on the offfff chance you make a mistace what do you do? Blindly cling to that belief? Well then hyphen or not, that would make you a goose stepper oddly enough.

So you think that if a cop makes a mistake, he should just go with it huh? I am perfectly happy to admit them and move along and learn. Most of us learn from mistakes, but of course when you already know EVERYTHING that is not possible.

Oh and a friendly suggestion. Unless you want to come across as a "spellcheck passes for wit in my world" guys, picking nits like that don't get far. (I know it is does not so save the spellcheck on it.)

And since you didn't get it, IRONY was what happens when YOU do something you accuse another of doing. But hey why not use it as an opportunity to call names at those you disagree with. Another great tactic when you have no point.

Oh and incidently the whole goose stepping statement was off base anyhow. Disguise it in whatever you like.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
The Burnaby Kid
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Whatever, Danny.

[sigh] How far they fall...
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
Dannydoyle
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Naw I goose stepped my way down. Spellllinnggg badly al the way.

You can't even HAVE a discussion without name calling and nit picking. Goose step started it all so you could get imiages of that going then your less than "friendly suggestion" about spelling.

Every try being civil first club out of the bag?

Oh naw just give that exaspirated sigh as if you are superior. HARDLY.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
critter
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Oh! Oh! Hold on! I have to go outside!
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landmark
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One of the Dancing protestors, Medea Benjamin, has an interesting article about her actions--it seems she's a serial dancer:

Quote:
Dancing can be dangerous. In Ceausescu’s Romania I was arrested for dancing without a partner. In newly independent Guinea Bissau, my dancing partner was thrown in jail for boogying before the President and his wife had the first dance. In Cuba I was awoken at 4am to bail out a friend who had been locked up for “lesbian dancing.” And in Afghanistan I narrowly escaped arrest for dancing on a “men-only” dance floor. On each occasion I was shocked by the misuse of government power and disrespect for personal freedom.

So I naturally felt the same sense of outrage when I heard about the case of Mary Brooke Oberwetter, who was arrested for dancing quietly (with a headset on) at the Jefferson Memorial back in 2008. She sued the Park Police, lost and then appealed. On May 17, 2011 the U.S. Court of Appeals ruled against her, saying that that dancing at memorials is forbidden “because it stands out as a type of performance, creating its own center of attention and distracting from the atmosphere of solemn commemoration.” Never mind that Oberwetter was arrested at midnight, when there was nobody but her and her friends around. Never mind that tourists at these memorials are always talking loudly, posing for photos and making all kinds of “distractions.” Never mind that dance can be a way to express joy at the freedoms espoused by our founding fathers.

To protest this absurd ruling, some folks put out a call on Facebook to gather on Saturday, May 28, to dance at the Memorial. I heard about it from my friend Adam Kokesh, an Iraq war vet and producer of the show Adam vs. the Man on the network Russia Today. A committed libertarian, Adam decided to help spread the word and join the protest. . .


More here:

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/06/03
gdw
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Let's not forget about the next Dance Party @ TJ's tomorrow at noon.
Apparently people in countries all over the world have said they will be dancing in support.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
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Pirate walks into a monument. He's got a ship's wheel on the front of his pants. Groundskeeper asks, "Did you know you have a ship's wheel on the front of your pants?" The Pirate says, "Aye, it's drivin' me nuts!"
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
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