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gdw
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On 2011-06-01 21:45, LobowolfXXX wrote:
"...Canada followed our blunder and adopted a written Constitution"

-My Constitutional Law professor, 2005.


Now THAT could definitely be considered a slam.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
Dannydoyle
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On 2011-06-01 19:21, landmark wrote:
We have just seen a small example of the Repeated Lie Technique in action.
BasementBasementBasementBasementBasementBasementBasementBasementBasementBasementBasementBasement . . .


Wait I see what you mean. Somewhat akin to CONSTANTLY yapping about the exact same thing, saying how bad cops are and how authority sucks and things like that? Yea you make a good point indeed.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
LobowolfXXX
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On 2011-06-01 22:02, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-06-01 21:45, LobowolfXXX wrote:
"...Canada followed our blunder and adopted a written Constitution"

-My Constitutional Law professor, 2005.


Now THAT could definitely be considered a slam.


I had a Criminal Law professor who hated the criminal system, a Constitutional Law professor who hated that Constitution, and a Torts professor who hated the tort system (and not entirely incidentally, was a Socialist). As far as I know, my Property professor was not averse to the concept of private property, but don't think that's a no-brainer, either.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Mr. Mystoffelees
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On 2011-05-31 23:13, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-30 21:15, Mr. Mystoffelees wrote:
At the very least, this was one of the worst examples of how to diffuse a potential problem I have ever seen. We may not yet be a police state, but at least the police are training for it. Shameful, really...


Have you seen a lot of them? How many? Two, three ten, a hundred. Please tell us as you seem to be an expert and we value your opinion. Especially when you use the words, "at the very least".


1. Yes. I teach the subject.
2. I did not count.
3. How do you get "seem to be an expert" from me stating my opinion. I can still do that, yes?
4. I used the words "at the very least" because I felt it was much, much worse than simply poor crowd management, if one calls that a crowd.

Why don't you give trying to be snide and confrontational a rest and consider my point. Do you really think that was the best way, or even a really good way, to handle that situation?
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
gdw
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Quote:
On 2011-06-01 22:19, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-06-01 19:21, landmark wrote:
We have just seen a small example of the Repeated Lie Technique in action.
BasementBasementBasementBasementBasementBasementBasementBasementBasementBasementBasementBasement . . .


Wait I see what you mean. Somewhat akin to CONSTANTLY yapping about the exact same thing, saying how bad cops are and how authority sucks and things like that? Yea you make a good point indeed.


Now if someone WERE making such generalizations and whining, that MIGHT be akin.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
gdw
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Quote:
On 2011-06-01 22:38, Mr. Mystoffelees wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-31 23:13, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-30 21:15, Mr. Mystoffelees wrote:
At the very least, this was one of the worst examples of how to diffuse a potential problem I have ever seen. We may not yet be a police state, but at least the police are training for it. Shameful, really...


Have you seen a lot of them? How many? Two, three ten, a hundred. Please tell us as you seem to be an expert and we value your opinion. Especially when you use the words, "at the very least".


1. Yes. I teach the subject.
2. I did not count.
3. How do you get "seem to be an expert" from me stating my opinion. I can still do that, yes?
4. I used the words "at the very least" because I felt it was much, much worse than simply poor crowd management, if one calls that a crowd.

Why don't you give trying to be snide and confrontational a rest and consider my point. Do you really think that was the best way, or even a really good way, to handle that situation?


No no, you see this is clearly how the better men handle things. Snide confrontation and encouraging responses to calling people idiots.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
Mr. Mystoffelees
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Quote:
On 2011-06-01 00:45, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-31 21:15, Mr. Mystoffelees wrote:
Nothing to be gained in a luffing duel to find out which of us is more naive, we just see it in different ways.

Some people don't smell smoke until the building is burned down around them. Others smell smoke where it doesn't exist. Room enough for both, don't you think? Certainly I will admit I have always been affected by "and then they came for me". That fact notwithstanding, I stand by what I said. To me the police response was stupid, overblown and unnecessary. Thank God someone in the crowd didn't have a harmonica...


I'm actually very good at sarcasm (and other forms of irony, btw); when I make a post that's not intended to be taken at face value, I'll point it out

[You bring to mind this advice sometimes given: "if you are having trouble understanding the definition of the word sarcasm perhaps your time would be better spent looking into other endeavors".]

Tried to edit, but Dread got in there first...anyhow I agree with you about "And Then They Came for Me"; I just don't think it's analogous here. I also agree with you about their being plenty of room to disagree. Mostly, though, I think that your use of the phrase cheapens it and does a grave, grave disservice to those who have actually lived in a police state, very much akin to the Andrea Dworkin comment equating pornography and rape.


[I am sorry you think bringing up an oft forgotten phrase "cheapens it" but my intent was anything but. Cancer never begins as a visible tumor. In fact, often by the time you sense it, it is too late. Actually I think people who have lived in a police state would be troubled by that video. I think they would have the history, the memories, the understanding, to see the analogy. ]

Thanks for the comments, though. I see your point.

Jim
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
acesover
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Quote:
On 2011-06-01 21:59, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-06-01 21:40, acesover wrote:
Here is the quote you asked for.


This is your post on june 1 at 7:45 am;

I think the constitution had a lot of great ideas. Far from a perfect document,

The word "far" in the above quote is a definite slam aganist the U.S. Constitution made by a Canadian with the title of gdw.

Enough said.


Lol, I never denied I said that, and addressed it. I also addressed your suggestion that I was saying there were better documents. I don't know why you brought up the question of "better" documents.

As for the word "far" it was not a "slam."
As I said, I think it has a lot of great ideas. Saying there is room for improvement is not a slam.

Do you consider the constitution to be a sacred untouchable document?

I consider Heart of Darkness to be a great book, but it's not perfect either

Atlas Shrugged has some things in it I agree with as well, but also far from perfect.

Not slamming either of those books.


Look in your rear view mirror...you are backpedaling.

Because you say your use of the word "far" is not a slam, am I supposed to agree with you? Again you just think to much of yourself. Please don't pee on my leg and tell me it is raining. It was and will continue to be a slam.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You ask: Do you consider the constitution to be a sacred untouchable document?

My answer to you is that it is definitely one of the most cherished documents of our time and I am not about to let some snot like yourself diminish it. Hope that answers your baited question.

Quite frankly I am not interested in what you think of "Atlas Struggled" or "Heart of Darkness" as they are not what we are discussing. Feeble attempt to change the subject.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
acesover
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Quote:
On 2011-06-01 22:38, Mr. Mystoffelees wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-31 23:13, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-30 21:15, Mr. Mystoffelees wrote:
At the very least, this was one of the worst examples of how to diffuse a potential problem I have ever seen. We may not yet be a police state, but at least the police are training for it. Shameful, really...


Have you seen a lot of them? How many? Two, three ten, a hundred. Please tell us as you seem to be an expert and we value your opinion. Especially when you use the words, "at the very least".


1. Yes. I teach the subject.
2. I did not count.
3. How do you get "seem to be an expert" from me stating my opinion. I can still do that, yes?
4. I used the words "at the very least" because I felt it was much, much worse than simply poor crowd management, if one calls that a crowd.

Why don't you give trying to be snide and confrontational a rest and consider my point. Do you really think that was the best way, or even a really good way, to handle that situation?


You teach what?

How in your "expert" opinion would you have handled these protestors who seem to want nothing more than to create a scene. They surely had no intention of listening to reason as was plainly seen in the video. Please explain your solution.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
Dannydoyle
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Cops are always wrong, that is the answer to every situation to some. Pathetic really.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Payne
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Quote:
On 2011-06-01 23:59, acesover wrote:

You ask: Do you consider the constitution to be a sacred untouchable document?



I doubt the framers of the Constitution ever considered the document they created "sacred". They certainly didn't consider it untouchable as they made it amendable for future generations. Otherwise we'd still be able to deny rights to certain segments of our population. Though some would say we still do.

Thus the document is, well far is a bit extreme, but at least not as nearly perfect as some would like us to believe. For one the phrasing is in some places less than clear. This leads to arguments over intent and interpretation of certain segments. They could have simply said private ownership of guns is protected without bringing the whole militia thing into it. They could have been much more definitive on the whole church state thing as well. But it's the best document we have and it has worked moderately well for the last two and a half centuries. Especially if you discount that whole unfortunate 18th amendment boondoggle.

I tire of the American Exceptionalism crowd. Yes this country is a great place. One of the greatest. But it is not "THE" Greatest. No such place exists. Some countries are better at some things than we are while we exceed many countries in other things.

But to Jingoistically pound ones chest and blindly proclaim that the USA is the bestest country in all the world does no one any good at all. After all one learns from ones mistakes. So if one fails to see the flaws and issues at hand they will never try to correct the problems. They will fail to take the steps necessary to make this country the best place it could possibly be.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
landmark
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acesover
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Quote:
On 2011-06-02 13:16, Payne wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-06-01 23:59, acesover wrote:

You ask: Do you consider the constitution to be a sacred untouchable document?



I doubt the framers of the Constitution ever considered the document they created "sacred". They certainly didn't consider it untouchable as they made it amendable for future generations. Otherwise we'd still be able to deny rights to certain segments of our population. Though some would say we still do.

Thus the document is, well far is a bit extreme, but at least not as nearly perfect as some would like us to believe. For one the phrasing is in some places less than clear. This leads to arguments over intent and interpretation of certain segments. They could have simply said private ownership of guns is protected without bringing the whole militia thing into it. They could have been much more definitive on the whole church state thing as well. But it's the best document we have and it has worked moderately well for the last two and a half centuries. Especially if you discount that whole unfortunate 18th amendment boondoggle.

I tire of the American Exceptionalism crowd. Yes this country is a great place. One of the greatest. But it is not "THE" Greatest. No such place exists. Some countries are better at some things than we are while we exceed many countries in other things.

But to Jingoistically pound ones chest and blindly proclaim that the USA is the bestest country in all the world does no one any good at all. After all one learns from ones mistakes. So if one fails to see the flaws and issues at hand they will never try to correct the problems. They will fail to take the steps necessary to make this country the best place it could possibly be.



Just to set the record straight here is the answer to that question which you did not post. You seemed to have omitted my answer as if I never responded.

You ask: Do you consider the constitution to be a sacred untouchable document?

My answer to you is that it is definitely one of the most cherished documents of our time and I am not about to let some snot like yourself diminish it. Hope that answers your baited question.

This answer was in response to gdw's question, not Payne.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
acesover
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A militia is I believe for the most part a non paid defender of the public. Today it would be hard to get one with the attitudes many have. They are mostly receivers and not givers. I will not repeat but remember the words of JFK ask not...

At the time the constitution was written it probably was not vague as to what it meant, as everyone had a gun or guns in their homes.

Different times, different attitudes, different moral standards, different different different... No internet to hide behind and spout drivel. If you said something to say you probably had a reason to say it and were not embarassed to say it to someone face to face. Rather than just to incite and become as some here are known, a troll, with no real purpose in their life. Sort of like an insect that should be swatted. Their own life is lacking so they strike out at the good fortune and ideals of those who are more suscessful and happy in their lot, while they just slosh around in the mire they have created and blame it on everyone else. These people have all the answers. They just have no moral fibre or ambition, just nastiness inside them that they must let out and hurt others by their remarks. It makes them feel important if they can ridicule what others believe in and make fun of it. Like the kid at the playground who makes fun of everyone else but can not get along with anyone so he mocks those who do and says they are stupid and dumb so he looks for those who will agree with him.
They hang out together. We know them as losers.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
gdw
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Lol.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
Payne
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Quote:
On 2011-06-02 14:45, acesover wrote:
A militia is I believe for the most part a non paid defender of the public. Today it would be hard to get one with the attitudes many have. They are mostly receivers and not givers. I will not repeat but remember the words of JFK ask not...

At the time the constitution was written it probably was not vague as to what it meant, as everyone had a gun or guns in their homes.

Different times, different attitudes, different moral standards, different different different... No internet to hide behind and spout drivel. If you said something to say you probably had a reason to say it and were not embarassed to say it to someone face to face. Rather than just to incite and become as some here are known, a troll, with no real purpose in their life. Sort of like an insect that should be swatted. Their own life is lacking so they strike out at the good fortune and ideals of those who are more suscessful and happy in their lot, while they just slosh around in the mire they have created and blame it on everyone else. These people have all the answers. They just have no moral fibre or ambition, just nastiness inside them that they must let out and hurt others by their remarks. It makes them feel important if they can ridicule what others believe in and make fun of it. Like the kid at the playground who makes fun of everyone else but can not get along with anyone so he mocks those who do and says they are stupid and dumb so he looks for those who will agree with him.
They hang out together. We know them as losers.


And some people wonder why we didn't make the 10 Happiest Country list Smile
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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"Different times, different attitudes, different moral standards, different different different... No internet to hide behind and spout drivel. If you said something to say you probably had a reason to say it and were not embarassed to say it to someone face to face."

The colonial times were famous for the often anonymous, libelous, newspapers and pamphlets. In some ways things never change.
gdw
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On 2011-06-02 15:24, landmark wrote:
"Different times, different attitudes, different moral standards, different different different... No internet to hide behind and spout drivel. If you said something to say you probably had a reason to say it and were not embarassed to say it to someone face to face."

The colonial times were famous for the often anonymous, libelous, newspapers and pamphlets. In some ways things never change.


:thumbsup:
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
acesover
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Quote:
On 2011-06-02 15:24, Payne wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-06-02 14:45, acesover wrote:
A militia is I believe for the most part a non paid defender of the public. Today it would be hard to get one with the attitudes many have. They are mostly receivers and not givers. I will not repeat but remember the words of JFK ask not...

At the time the constitution was written it probably was not vague as to what it meant, as everyone had a gun or guns in their homes.

Different times, different attitudes, different moral standards, different different different... No internet to hide behind and spout drivel. If you said something to say you probably had a reason to say it and were not embarassed to say it to someone face to face. Rather than just to incite and become as some here are known, a troll, with no real purpose in their life. Sort of like an insect that should be swatted. Their own life is lacking so they strike out at the good fortune and ideals of those who are more suscessful and happy in their lot, while they just slosh around in the mire they have created and blame it on everyone else. These people have all the answers. They just have no moral fibre or ambition, just nastiness inside them that they must let out and hurt others by their remarks. It makes them feel important if they can ridicule what others believe in and make fun of it. Like the kid at the playground who makes fun of everyone else but can not get along with anyone so he mocks those who do and says they are stupid and dumb so he looks for those who will agree with him.
They hang out together. We know them as losers.


And some people wonder why we didn't make the 10 Happiest Country list Smile


What a wonderfult post Payne. What does it mean?
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
acesover
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On 2011-06-02 15:38, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-06-02 15:24, landmark wrote:
"Different times, different attitudes, different moral standards, different different different... No internet to hide behind and spout drivel. If you said something to say you probably had a reason to say it and were not embarassed to say it to someone face to face."

The colonial times were famous for the often anonymous, libelous, newspapers and pamphlets. In some ways things never change.


:thumbsup:


You are right. There will always be A holes as you are living proof. Some things never change.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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