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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Selling suicide kits (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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gdw
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I was VERY hesitant in posting this, but I think it is worth discussing.

I'm going to try to refrain from involving my views in the discussion as I know it is an emotional topic for many, my self included, due to peoples personal experiences, among other things.

I don't want to upset anyone, as I know my views often can, so out of respect for others, and the issue, I will try to refrain from adding my views. Besides which, they've already been posted on the forum elsewhere.

I may contribute questions, but I'll try to keep my views out of it.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-......84.story
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
Dreadnought
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Quote:
On 2011-05-31 22:12, gdw wrote:
I was VERY hesitant in posting this, but I think it is worth discussing.


Oh God help us.
Peace

"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..."

Scott

Would you do anything for the person you love?
Jonathan Townsend
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Yeah, that's so much cheaper and less messy than the car dealer who sells fancy ways to make a huge mess of the process or the liquor store that sells a much slower process - or the tobacconist who sells portable COPD kits. The sheer hypocrisy of the blame game is getting amusing. I call unfair competition and want those kits taken off the market!

What next, gonna look at those who peddle smugness by way of righteous vanity as hate mongers? Can common sense prevail or do we really have to play the "human rights" game?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Tom Jorgenson
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I think the dilemma is that it is easy to see ALL sides on this one.
We dance an invisible dance to music they cannot hear.
rossmacrae
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Get 'em stocked in Walmart and save big bucks!

Maybe as a premium in a Happy Meal ... oh, wait a minute, a Happy Meal already is a mini-suicide-kit.
gdw
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Wow, not how I expected this to go, at least not so quickly.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2011-05-31 23:13, gdw wrote:
Wow, not how I expected this to go, at least not so quickly.


Does it come with balloons? Or the McMeal come with statin (anti cholesterol pills) ?
Does the cigarette come with a coupon for a fresh pair of lungs?
How about the liquor with a deal for a new liver?

Or how about we just stick to common sense. It's still a crime to use that kit on someone without their consent. Same as driving while impaired does not regard whether it's distraction, sleepiness, alcohol or other drug use.

Please - let those who feel they must do what they will with some dignity.

I'm not a fan of stories about cleaning brains off the ceiling and walls, terrible stays at hospitals and such. Same for the prolonged horrors of chemotherapy, radium treatments and then... and then... that terrible night at the hospital.

So I should get upset about something like the helium balloon kit? Sorry. I'm not upset. I'm simply not in the mood to be a customer nor to deny someone who feels they really need to be a customer. My concerns start when others get involved in the process.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
gdw
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Quote:
On 2011-05-31 23:23, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-31 23:13, gdw wrote:
Wow, not how I expected this to go, at least not so quickly.


Does it come with balloons? Or the McMeal come with statin (anti cholesterol pills) ?
Does the cigarette come with a coupon for a fresh pair of lungs?
How about the liquor with a deal for a new liver?

Or how about we just stick to common sense. It's still a crime to use that kit on someone without their consent. Same as driving while impaired does not regard whether it's distraction, sleepiness, alcohol or other drug use.

Please - let those who feel they must do what they will with some dignity.

I'm not a fan of stories about cleaning brains off the ceiling and walls, terrible stays at hospitals and such. Same for the prolonged horrors of chemotherapy, radium treatments and then... and then... that terrible night at the hospital.

So I should get upset about something like the helium balloon kit? Sorry. I'm not upset. I'm simply not in the mood to be a customer nor to deny someone who feels they really need to be a customer. My concerns start when others get involved in the process.


I certainly wasn't arguing against that view Jonathan. As a matter of fact, this time, I wasn't arguing anything.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
LobowolfXXX
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I agree with the point of view that gdw is refraining from espousing.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Dreadnought
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Quote:
On 2011-05-31 23:13, gdw wrote:
Wow, not how I expected this to go, at least not so quickly.


You're so transparent. You're a cold reader's dream.
Peace

"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..."

Scott

Would you do anything for the person you love?
rossmacrae
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Sorry to "jump the gun" (the jokes just write themselves, don't they?) with low humor ... it's my chief way of dealing with stress. I figure, if you don't laugh, you'll scream. I'd rather laugh.

The article linked to ... I'm reading all the way down to the "related stories" links at the bottom. Perfect solution to production problems: you get the death-row prisoners to earn a little cash by assembling the kits.

I thought the thread's resolution had been reached when Tom Jorgenson posted "I think the dilemma is that it is easy to see ALL sides on this one." ... I'll second that.
gdw
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Quote:
On 2011-06-01 00:59, Dreadnought wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-31 23:13, gdw wrote:
Wow, not how I expected this to go, at least not so quickly.


You're so transparent. You're a cold reader's dream.


???
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
Magnus Eisengrim
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If I were confident that the kits were only used by mentally healthy people who were choosing an honourable retreat from terminal illness, this would be easy.

I am not confident. And suicide is crushing.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
stoneunhinged
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Well, said, John.
landmark
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I am so not getting into this discussion.
Dreadnought
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Quote:
On 2011-06-01 07:48, gdw wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-06-01 00:59, Dreadnought wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-31 23:13, gdw wrote:
Wow, not how I expected this to go, at least not so quickly.


You're so transparent. You're a cold reader's dream.


???


Good. We like that, keep it that way.
Peace

"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..."

Scott

Would you do anything for the person you love?
gsidhe
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The following are my opinions. I do not expect to change anyone's minds on the subject, nor am I looking to have myself persuaded in any other direction. I am simply stating my opinion based on my own life experiences.

Suicide is awful. It leaves those that cared about the individual wondering if they could have done something, if it was their fault...in short tortured. I see it as a very selfish act. I forgive those that I have lost but wish they had looked at a different way of dealing with life.

Euthanasia however should be a human right. It releases the inflicted from their pain. It can spare those that care about them the torture of watching a loved one in agony. It allows someone to go out on their own terms instead of being slowly ravaged by disease until their is no happiness left. It gives back control.

This woman is (Again, in my opinion) not committing a crime, just supplying tools. From the description, I could cobble something similar together in a matter of minutes. People will kill themselves. A determined person will find a way...especially for a euthanasia case. This just makes it easier.
A suicide however...Aren't most of them spur of the moment? They reach the decision to do it and find their method right away? Having to order a kit on line might actually save lives by delaying the process waiting for it to arrive. It gives them time to recant.

Personally I would never use that type of kit. I would not want my last words to sound like a cartoon character.
Gwyd
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2011-06-01 12:02, gsidhe wrote:
The following are my opinions. I do not expect to change anyone's minds on the subject, nor am I looking to have myself persuaded in any other direction. I am simply stating my opinion based on my own life experiences.

Suicide is awful. It leaves those that cared about the individual wondering if they could have done something, if it was their fault...in short tortured. I see it as a very selfish act. I forgive those that I have lost but wish they had looked at a different way of dealing with life.

Euthanasia however should be a human right. It releases the inflicted from their pain. It can spare those that care about them the torture of watching a loved one in agony. It allows someone to go out on their own terms instead of being slowly ravaged by disease until their is no happiness left. It gives back control.

This woman is (Again, in my opinion) not committing a crime, just supplying tools. From the description, I could cobble something similar together in a matter of minutes. People will kill themselves. A determined person will find a way...especially for a euthanasia case. This just makes it easier.
A suicide however...Aren't most of them spur of the moment? They reach the decision to do it and find their method right away? Having to order a kit on line might actually save lives by delaying the process waiting for it to arrive. It gives them time to recant.

Personally I would never use that type of kit. I would not want my last words to sound like a cartoon character.
Gwyd


We're all terminally ill. What is euthanasia if not merely suicide with (what most of us consider) a good reason?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Ray Tupper.
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Quote:
On 2011-06-01 12:02, gsidhe wrote:
I would not want my last words to sound like a cartoon character.
Gwyd

Pppp ppppp pppppp that's all folks. Smile
What do we want?
A cure for tourettes!
When do we want it?
C*nt!
critter
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I am not going to comment on the ethical or moral implications of assisted suicide for the terminally ill. That's a far too complex and personal issue.
All I will say is that until there is a law that specifically exempts assisted suicide in those cases then knowingly supplying the means for someone to kill themselves, knowing full well what they intend to do with said tool, makes you complicit.
In anticipation of an inane counter, this is not the same as selling a gun or a bottle of pills when you don't know what the person will use it for (especially so with a bottle of Aspirin) this kit has a specific stated purpose.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
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