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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Selling suicide kits (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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gdw
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Quote:
On 2011-06-01 19:36, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Get over yourself gdw, it's not all about you. there's an issue - and it does not have to be all yours or even about you at all. try stepping out of the way and let others process their experience and share what they choose.


I'm sorry, are you seriously saying I was the one making this all about me?
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
gdw
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Quote:
On 2011-06-01 14:42, stoneunhinged wrote:
Right, Payne.

If this thread teaches anything, it is that we should make a clear distinction between "euthanasia" and "suicide".

They're not the same thing.

And again, I distrust GDW's framing of the issue in his original post. In fact, I'm beginning to dislike him as a poster. He is either intellectually immature, or a troll, or both.

And yes, I'll put my money where my mouth is, and debate him on any issue, anywhere, and any time. He's a kid with so much time on his hands that he either trolls the Magic Café or needs an intellectual mentor to tell him he is full of sh!t. And I'm tired of it. I believe in free speech as much as anyone, but lets call a tree a tree and a stone a stone. GDW is either a troll or a moron. One of the two.

My guess is that he's a moron. But who knows?

Maybe the moderators should decide. GDW, why don't you report this post?

Either that or go to college or something. You're not ever gonna be an intellectual by stealing stuff in a magic shop.


Yup, clearly me making this about myself.

I stated my intentions to refrain from bringing my opinions into this, and I have maintained this. Apparently for some the simple fact that it was me who started this topic was enough influence to "make it about me."

How about we get back to the topic?
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
Micheal Leath
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Lately I've been trying to stay out of it, but GDW you are an absolute idiot. You are not as smart as you think you are.

There, I said it.
gdw
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Apparently we can't get back to the topic.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
acesover
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The anti gdw club expands.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2011-06-01 00:28, LobowolfXXX wrote:
I agree with the point of view that gdw is refraining from espousing.


Seconded.

Quote:
On 2011-06-01 09:05, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
If I were confident that the kits were only used by mentally healthy people who were choosing an honourable retreat from terminal illness, this would be easy.

I am not confident. And suicide is crushing.

John


I was trying to figure out how to say this. You did it better than I could.
Another problem is, suicide is never done in a vacuum. I had a co-member of a theater group who committed suicide. Maybe HE was at peace, but he left a Hell of a lot of anger and resentment behind him.
No matter how bad you fell about your life, there's going to be more than one person who's going to be devestated (sp) when you're gone.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
Jonathan Townsend
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So Ed, you like the big bang and huge mess approach better than the quiet passing that the kit might afford someone who's sure they want to do such a thing?

If you look back at the earlier post I addressed the angry/messy/cleanup factor of this issue.
Those who are so stuck inside themselves that they only deal with their feelings about someone after they have died... that's its own therapy issue and truly not related to the quiet/messy/loud passing issue of the kit IMHO. I believe it's treatable and much better to live among the imperfect than be haunted by ghosts after the fact.

Some folks accept that the person who chose to die did so for their own reasons and wish them the best in their passing and hold on to good memories of the departed.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
magicfish
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Quote:
On 2011-06-01 21:24, acesover wrote:
The anti gdw club expands.

Exponentially every time he does this. Shameful.
ed rhodes
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We try to hold onto the good memories, but I don't think we can ever accept that he died for his own reasons. He died because he had one last depressive fit (of many) and no one saw it coming to try and head it off. I'm not saying we hated Carson or that we still do.
But his passing hurt a lot of people. I didn't know him well enough to be touched so much by his death,
but my wife (who was also in the theater group) was a member of the "Dawn Patrol" a group of people who
tried to keep Carson together when he was having his down periods.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
stoneunhinged
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Quote:
Apparently for some the simple fact that it was me who started this topic was enough influence to "make it about me."


Unless you are mentally retarded (which I'm beginning to think you might be), you would realize that the act of starting a particular thread is a reflection of your interests at the moment. You wouldn't have started a thread if you weren't interested in the topic.

Further: among all the posters here in this forum, you are probably the most explicitly ideological of all of us, so we might reasonably guess your position without you stating it. You are a libertarian --> anarchist, so you (obviously!) would be against the state having any laws against anyone selling "suicide kits", and more so against anyone using such a kit.

Your political position, in my opinion, is immature and naive. But, you know, it's just not my job to educate every nut and whack job on the Internet. So I leave you alone, because it doesn't affect me personally.

But Jonathan put it best when he talked about cleaning the splattered brains off the walls. Have you, Glenn? Have you mopped up the blood? Have you consoled those parents who found their kid hanging in the bedroom? Have you counseled the old man who found his wife in a crimson-watered bathtub?

This time your idiotic ravings hit a nerve, so I didn't let it go. You "hesitated" to post this? Right. But you thought we needed to discuss it anyway? Right. Since when did the Magic Café become a university classroom? And, supposing it did, who made you the professor?

My objection to you is not that you are stupid and illogical (though you are), but that you don't know it (which you apparently don't), and that you seem to think the opposite: you think the Not Very Magical Still forum is a place for you to put on your (unearned) professor's cap and lecture us on the evils of government. Unlike the other regulars, you seem to forget that some of us have deep backgrounds in some of these subjects. You rave about the law, seemingly unaware that LobowolfXXX is a practicing lawyer (whose law degree, as I recall, is only a few years back; so this stuff is really fresh in his mind--although that might not make a difference to you). Likewise, it somehow got past you that I have a PhD in political philosophy, or that Danny Doyle and Dreadnought used to be cops. You come into the bar and throw volatile ideas around as if they were peanut shells, then act huffy and hurt when people who have extensive knowledge on the subject criticize your juvenile ideas.

I'm surrounded by young intellectuals. Every day. It's part of the job. But nearly all of them hit a point in which they realize that they just weren't as smart as they thought they were. It's kind of like the kids in the States who show up their first day in college wearing their letter jackets from high school: they shed those jackets soon enough, because they "get" that college isn't high school. In the same way, those high school intellectuals finally "get" that their professors don't really need to be taught by the 18-year-olds that have just arrived on campus, and they sit back and learn.

You, Glenn, simply haven't matured enough to sit back and learn. You don't know who's who, and don't know who to learn from.

Me, I come here every day for fun and leisure, but I also learn. I learn from all sorts of people. I've learned, for example, from all those who I've named in this post--but many more. If I were to sit for a beer with John (Magnus Eisengrim, for those who don't keep track of who respects and admires whom), I'm sure I would listen as much as I would talk. Would you? Would you, could you stop talking? I've seen no evidence whatsoever in this forum that you are ever influenced by the ideas of anyone else here. You don't listen. You just talk.

So that is why I distrust your motives in this thread. I simply don't believe that anything anyone writes in this thread would make any difference to you at all, intellectually speaking. And since you are an intellectual, I find that disingenuousness quite telling. You're like a cowboy without a hat or horse. You're an intellectual, but you don't have genuine respect for the ideas of others.

Now, you could report this post as "flaming", but it's not. Yes, it is a personal attack. It's not "ad hominem", for I'm not attacking you to attack your ideas. I'm attacking your personality, your character, your online personification.

I'd still have a beer with you. But I'd make it clear that I'm not your student, that I don't want to be your student, that only a mentally defective person would be your student, and that I've done enough time, thought enough thoughts, banged more ideas and slept with more great thinkers than you ever dreamed of. You couldn't even scrape the gum off the soles of my boots, intellectually speaking. You are an ant, a flea, a microbe. You're stupid, dumb, idiotic, trash-brained, thick, dense, and slow as a snail in molasses.

So, GDW, shut up, my friend, and have a beer:

:stout:

In fact, let's all have a beer!

:stout: Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile
:stout: Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile
:stout: Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile
:stout: Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile
:stout: Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile
:stout: Smile
stoneunhinged
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One more thing:

I cried myself to sleep last night.

Just sayin'.
gsidhe
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Quote:
On 2011-06-01 18:10, Jonathan Townsend wrote:

BTW, here's another well founded fear for the real world - bullying by sending others that kit. Kindly let them ask. What one might imagine as offering help when not requested can be very effective cruelty.

That gave me chills Jonathan. I had not even considered that aspect. I could very easily see individuals using that as a tool for torment.
Absolutely mortifying.
acesover
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Wow...three posts above is probably the most intelligent well written post I have ever read on The Café.

Thank you stoneunhinged for your input about this individual. I do not believe anyone could have a said it better.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
Dreadnought
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Stone, My heart goes out to you concerning your loss and grief.

TO GDW and others, I have seen the aftermath of suicide. Whether it is a shotgun blast inside the mouth, a pen to the temple, letter opener in the eye, carbon monoxide or slit wrists, the impact left to those who loved the person is devestating and the stuff of nightmares. The loved ones left behind begin second guessing themselves and looking for those tell tale signs. It is never clean. Some, probably never recover. I never liked being the bearer of bad news to a family. In fact, I have seen no difference between the loved ones left behind from those who have committed suicide and those who lost someone to a violent crime or action. The pain endures and closure rarily comes.

I was joking earlier when I said those who commit suicide is just the culling of the herd. In reality, those who commit suicide or just entertaining the mere thought of it, for whatever reason, have reached a point so low that they have determined suicide is their only answer. That is indeed sad and heart rendering. Even when a person is in intense pain, such as the last throes of cancer, it is never the physical pain, my experience has shown it is always the psychological burden that becomes the issue. When a person wants to be put out their misery and euthanized because they don't want to suffer, their mind is no different than the person standing atop the Huey P. Long and desiring to jump into the Mississipi because they lost everything and can't face their wife and children because they view themselves as a failure who is worth more dead than alive.
Peace

"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..."

Scott

Would you do anything for the person you love?
critter
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I still have a lot of mental scars from Sarah's suicide, and I will never forgive her.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
gdw
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When I was initially told Rodger had died, it was devastating. When, several days later, after his service, I found out he had taken his own life, it was like hearing he had died all over again.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
Dreadnought
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Suicide is hard. At some level those left behind to pick up the pieces sometimes find blame and guilt to heap on their ownselves. Some will feel that they were wronged and resentment grows. Forgiveness comes with time. In time, forgiveness comes with letting go and making peace with the past and finally taking a step forward. A step that at times requires a leap of faith. I do extend my love, sympathy and prayers to all of you and those whom you miss so dearly. Peace for all those left behind and those who have moved on.
Peace

"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..."

Scott

Would you do anything for the person you love?
gdw
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Quote:
On 2011-06-02 22:45, Dreadnought wrote:
Suicide is hard. At some level those left behind to pick up the pieces sometimes find blame and guilt to heap on their ownselves. Some will feel that they were wronged and resentment grows. Forgiveness comes with time. In time, forgiveness comes with letting go and making peace with the past and finally taking a step forward. A step that at times requires a leap of faith. I do extend my love, sympathy and prayers to all of you and those whom you miss so dearly. Peace for all those left behind and those who have moved on.


Thank you. I imagine you have had your own losses as well, and so my thoughts go out to you too.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
Dreadnought
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Thanks. I have never had anyone close to me commit suicide. But I have sat vigil with people in a hospice. As a Catholic Deacon my ministry is to those in the hospital and hospices. As a police officer, I have dealt with people who are attempting suicide, have committed suicide or have died violently and tending to the families and friends left behind was, in my eyes and heart, crucial. People, at times, fail to realize how many people one person touches in their lifetime and that everyone is some mother's child.
Peace

"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..."

Scott

Would you do anything for the person you love?
stoneunhinged
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And in related news, Jack Kevorkian is dead:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/obit......ory.html
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