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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Selling suicide kits (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2011-06-03 11:24, stoneunhinged wrote:
And in related news, Jack Kevorkian is dead:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/obit......ory.html

I just saw that and came over here to post it, but you beat me to it.

Coincidentally, I was going to use the "in related news" lead-in as well.

Are you reading my thoughts?
stoneunhinged
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On 2011-06-03 12:19, S2000magician wrote:
Are you reading my thoughts?


Yes. I'm a mental case.
RS1963
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I've been rejecting the idea of posting in this thread. Because I knew I wouldn't say anything as well as I would want it to come out. What Stone (Jeff) posted is the type of thing I would have liked to have been able to write but not sure I could ever put it that well.

Very good post Jeff and maybe just maybe Glenn will finely get it. I think all of us may hope that he will.
S2000magician
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On 2011-06-01 13:23, Dreadnought wrote:
Suicide is indeed bad absolutely tragic for all those involved.

Years ago I worked in an office, and learned one Monday that one of the women who worked there had committed suicide over the weekend.

She had worked delivering mail, so everyone in the office knew her. She was always pleasant, always smiling, always had a nice comment to make. We would chat whenever she came by, or when we passed in the hallways. I, as with everyone else there, had no idea that there was anything wrong.

What appalled me, however, was the behavior at her funeral. Her family was there, of course, along with most of the account managers, analysts, and support staff from the office, and a few members of upper management, though not the top people; it was a sizable host. After the minister gave the eulogy he asked if anyone would like to say a few words. A couple of members of her family talked briefly, and that was it. Not one person - nobody - from the office had anything to say. I looked around a bit to see if anyone would step up to say anything, and no one moved. I finally decided that it was up to me, so I stepped forward to say what I wrote above: that she was always pleasant, always smiling, always nice to have around. I certainly didn't know her as well as some of the others, but it would have been shameful to have left her family thinking that nobody at work had a kind word to say about their daughter/sister.

The worst of it, of course, is the feeling that I may have been able to do something to help her if I had only known the she needed some help. Everyone at work was always incredibly busy, but there is nothing we were doing there that was more important than helping a coworker who was so overwhelmed that she believed that suicide was the only (or the best) answer. I wish that she had been poorer at hiding whatever she was feeling; I'd have asked.
Jonathan Townsend
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Just as an exercise, and just for a few moments, imagine that you put yourself just a little bit into the thinking of a person who might be looking at options and consider what that kit might mean to them - and indirectly (from their perspective) to the others in their life.

Since it's useful to keep a balance on these difficult matters - I'd like you to have a look at what Jules Henry wrote about intellectual sabotage in his book "Essays on Education". Finding the pertinent quote may keep you distracted long enough to settle after the exercise above.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
LobowolfXXX
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On 2011-06-03 13:29, RS1963 wrote:
maybe Glenn will finely get it. I think all of us may hope that he will.


It's an interesting part of the human condition that we assume that someone who does not agree with us must not understand us.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2011-06-01 12:08, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-06-01 12:02, gsidhe wrote:
The following are my opinions. I do not expect to change anyone's minds on the subject, nor am I looking to have myself persuaded in any other direction. I am simply stating my opinion based on my own life experiences.

Suicide is awful. It leaves those that cared about the individual wondering if they could have done something, if it was their fault...in short tortured. I see it as a very selfish act. I forgive those that I have lost but wish they had looked at a different way of dealing with life.

Euthanasia however should be a human right. It releases the inflicted from their pain. It can spare those that care about them the torture of watching a loved one in agony. It allows someone to go out on their own terms instead of being slowly ravaged by disease until their is no happiness left. It gives back control.

This woman is (Again, in my opinion) not committing a crime, just supplying tools. From the description, I could cobble something similar together in a matter of minutes. People will kill themselves. A determined person will find a way...especially for a euthanasia case. This just makes it easier.
A suicide however...Aren't most of them spur of the moment? They reach the decision to do it and find their method right away? Having to order a kit on line might actually save lives by delaying the process waiting for it to arrive. It gives them time to recant.

Personally I would never use that type of kit. I would not want my last words to sound like a cartoon character.
Gwyd


We're all terminally ill. What is euthanasia if not merely suicide with (what most of us consider) a good reason?


Perfect health is simply the slowest rate at which you can possibly die.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Jonathan Townsend
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That would put cryogenic suspension or running as a sim on a huge time share as "perfect health".
Not sure that's quite enough of a definition for me, at least for today.

Lots of creatures in perfect health die very quickly - and many of them by way of other creatures. The circle of life and all that.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
gdw
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On 2011-06-03 21:41, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-06-03 13:29, RS1963 wrote:
maybe Glenn will finely get it. I think all of us may hope that he will.


It's an interesting part of the human condition that we assume that someone who does not agree with us must not understand us.


:thumbsup:
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
RS1963
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Quote:
On 2011-06-03 21:41, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-06-03 13:29, RS1963 wrote:
maybe Glenn will finely get it. I think all of us may hope that he will.


It's an interesting part of the human condition that we assume that someone who does not agree with us must not understand us.


Perhaps he does understand things Or us as you say, sometimes can't help but wonder.
stoneunhinged
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Quote:
On 2011-06-03 21:41, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-06-03 13:29, RS1963 wrote:
maybe Glenn will finely get it. I think all of us may hope that he will.


It's an interesting part of the human condition that we assume that someone who does not agree with us must not understand us.


Such an assumption is easier to make, of course, when someone doesn't even bother to acknowledge that we've spoken. Smile
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2011-06-04 05:23, stoneunhinged wrote:...
Such an assumption is easier to make, of course, when someone doesn't even bother to acknowledge that we've spoken. Smile


After a certain age on is expected (by others) to know what one is thinking and feeling and from that to make conscious choices about what to express (to others) in public using words (spoken or written). Such is called communication.

When in public, at the Café for example, what serves the public (within which one is presumed to be a peer) is communication which demonstrates an acute awareness of what others have written and some consideration for what they could be thinking and feeling.

I ask you, gdw in particular, how it is to consider magic - the very direct manipulation of others perceptions and sentiments in public context while getting such feedback from peers here that there is some considerable room for improvement in your ability to acknowledge and accommodate the sentiments and perspectives others share?

You can fool some others some of the time - but you can fool yourself all of the time.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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