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Blair Marshall Inner circle Montreal, Canada 3660 Posts |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0Qiiy6jJtg&feature=related
I just came across this very short clip Orson performs the duck production and it took me by surprise!!! It looks very similar to the set (trays and tub) that I now have, so..... Does anyone know if Lee Edwards (West coast illusionist) provided the props for this segment? The large brass trays came in a fiber case marked Virgil, but I do not think they were his. Any photos around of Virgil doing this effect? The costuming in the segment looks similar in style to those created by Steve Sprague for "ShaZzam!" the Lee Edwards' version. I do not know who may have manufactured the "tub" but is is very well made, brass trim etc, and the brass plates are well gimmicked also. Some of the older props in Lee's repertoire were done by Owen (from the original "ShaZzam!" show). Any of the older guys here have an idea from the above notes and clues? I LOVE a good mystery! Blair
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Blair Marshall Inner circle Montreal, Canada 3660 Posts |
Anyone have an idea of the show this clip is from, or the year???
B
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tristanmagic Special user 533 Posts |
This clip is from the documentary Orson Welles - The One Man Band from 1995
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hugmagic Inner circle 7655 Posts |
Abb Dickson supplied the props.
Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
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Blair Marshall Inner circle Montreal, Canada 3660 Posts |
"One Man Band" is a compilation of Orson's work.
Richard, I did read the article on the movie, before posting, that Abb was involved with A project with Orson, but I doubt he supplied the magic for all of the films/work shown in the above film documentary/compilation. (Abb had a lot of great looking props with the "Presto" show.) So the question still is, where is that clip originally from? It looks more like an old t.v. show appearance versus a live show. I did try to find other similar looking clips (ie. similar staging, curtain etc.) but with no success.....yet. LOL Blair
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hugmagic Inner circle 7655 Posts |
I remember Abb telling me that Orson wanted to see the Duck tub but did not have time to stop by. He had Abb carry the prop to the street corner below the Magic Castle and be ready to perform it there at at certain time. At the appointed time, Orson pulls up in his little sports car. Abb does the effect. Orson says thank you and drives off.
It is possible that the prop was not Abb but I do not he consulted on the effect. Abb also consulting the sands tricks. I still chuckle when I remember Abb telling about going into some of the sex shops on Hollywood Blvd. asking for four dozen of each of red, blue, yellow and green condoms. I think the video may be from a Merv Griffin show. It looks like maybe late 1970's or earlier. But just a guess. The curtains and such had the feel of Merv's show on which Orson made many appearances. Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com email-hugmagic@raex.com Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's. |
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Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2607 Posts |
Lol...Richard, those were my memories as well!
He would typically come into Hollywood Magic on the way to Merv Griffin taping down the street to have me teach him something to do on the show. He hated to rehearse and frequently messed the effect up entirely and for some reason it never seemed to matter. It was amazing to work with someone who had that level of charisma to bluff his way through so much and succeed. Don Wayne also worked with him a lot on some of those small films like this one so he might have better notes. I did love sharing stories with Abb as well. He would also get many "escape" looking things from the bondage shops that used to be around on the Boulevard. More great history from the good old days ;-)
Ray Pierce
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Blair Marshall Inner circle Montreal, Canada 3660 Posts |
Ray, from the look of the prop do you have any idea who would have made it? Because of the quality I don't think there would have been many made. I doubt it is Gaughans' work as I think it is too old. Because it came from Lee (Edwards) I know he consulted on many T.V. productions, the FISM shows that were shown in the U.S. in the late 70's all had inserted illusions with Lee performing them. Steve, his brother, sometimes gets to the Castle these days, and works with one of the West coast illusion acts. As Lee is no longer with us, I cannot confirm with him.
Richard, I trust Abb had a crew with him as the plates are approx. 30" dia. and weigh a bit! LOL! Right now I do not question that they are the same prop, only whether mine are the ones Orson used in this clip. B (P.S. I sent off a note to Abb to see if he remembers where the clip and prop were from.)
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Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2607 Posts |
I have to tell you that this was always one of my favorite effects and performed correctly it is really good. These are really well made. lol.. I made mine from large waiter's trays! I watched this many times for clues. I was especially trying to recognize the assistants as they really know what they're doing and could be the key to the originator. I do know that John made some Duck Tubs around that time but I don't remember them looking like that. I think these are older as well. I know Abb did the duck tubs (as well as a brilliant appearance of a duck in the audience!) but I just don't remember what they looked like. Good luck unraveling the mystery!
Ray Pierce
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JNeal Inner circle I used to have 999 posts, now I have 1616 Posts |
Whenever it was shot..had to be prior to the late 70's....Orson was never that thin by that point.
I'd guess mid 60's, based on his appearance and adeptness with which he handles he props....it conveys a level of degree of familiarity and comfort. That was gone by 1977 or so, and he was in the 'bluff' mode. I write this with all due respect.... Regards- JNeal
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Blair Marshall Inner circle Montreal, Canada 3660 Posts |
I thought Orson looked a little slim here too, I only remember his magic performances from the Dean Martin show here. And as I do not have those shows on tape I would guess the latest it would be is about 1975. I think it may predate Abb's involvement with him.
B
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donrodrigo Special user U.S.A. and Europe 635 Posts |
Great thread friends. Question,however, do we know if Orson had published any material on his magic.
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Blair Marshall Inner circle Montreal, Canada 3660 Posts |
I do not think he published anything on magic, but I am sure you could find articles and interviews on acting and presentation. This is truly his secret in perfomring magic. I remember his presentation of the Crystal Casket very vividly.
B
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Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2607 Posts |
Very true... like all exceptional magicians, he was a master storyteller. Eugene Burger on steroids.
Ray Pierce
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R Don Regular user West Coast 197 Posts |
I don t know about this trick; but when he was on the Lucy show with the broom suspension- I think the prop was from Kirk Kirkham.
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Blair Marshall Inner circle Montreal, Canada 3660 Posts |
R Don - I seem to remember that also but only from photos. Here's Lucy performing with my "Asrah" Illusion and "Crystal Casket" Illusion (by Gaughan). At that time they were part of a HBO special with Lee Edwards as the magic consultant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxW7enjbHcg I notice on-line their is a 600 plus page e-book on Welles available that talks about his magic days, it was produced by Bart Whaley who has done some other magic performer encyclopedias. B
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David Charvet Special user www.charvetmagic.com 501 Posts |
Blair - Here's the answer to your question: That segment with Orson was filmed in the late 1960's (I think '69). The two assistants are John and Cathy Daniel and they provided the props for this, and many of Orson's other "magic" projects during this time, when they had the ShaZzam! show. I believe the Duck Tub was Virgil's, as John and Virgil were very close friends and John received many props from Virgil (and later acquired the remains of Virgil's entire show, which he still has.) Most likely, John sold the tub to Lee Edwards, with the other ShaZzam! props and it then passed to you. I believe there's a photo of Virgil with the prop (and the buckets of water that spelled V-I-R-G-I-L and were used to fill the tub) from his world tour in my Virgil book (I'm not in my library now to check.)
You could, of course, confirm all of this with John and Cathy Daniel, but I believe this is correct. I wrote a piece about Orson in MAGIC magazine back in 1993. |
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Blair Marshall Inner circle Montreal, Canada 3660 Posts |
Well, we are getting there!! LOL Thanks David for the further input.
I took a look at the Virgil book (which I bought from you and you autographed to me in 1991), on page 148 is the photo that you mention, however the tub is the size of a wash tub there, not at all like the one in the above clip. But I am glad you were able to identify John and Cathy in the clip. ALTHOUGH, the lineage that you suggest is probably correct for the one I have also. I just dug out the fiber case which I received the trays in and it is a case that Virgil sent back to Owen magic. Now remembering that at one time John Daniel was a partner in Owen Magic, this was at the time he was building the "ShaZzam!" show and working on the thin model sawing, it may have been the illusion being sent on to him. I have several other bits and pieces that predate the "ShaZzam!" show, like the water fountains that rose as the Asrah went up, John performed this on the "It's Magic" show. I do recollect reading a story on John talking about his input to the many shows that Orson did. Many thanks for the input! B
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David Charvet Special user www.charvetmagic.com 501 Posts |
Happy to help. John Daniel and Carl Owen built the second Thin Sawing for Virgil after he saw John and Irene perform the illusion at the 1959 PCAM convention. Virgil and John were very close friends. I'm 99 percent certain that your prop was Virgil's and the one used by Orson, from what you've said.
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Blair Marshall Inner circle Montreal, Canada 3660 Posts |
So a big thanks to all who contributed to this thread, and on this props history, for me. A final note would be that the Daniels' got back to me also and indicated that it was made by John and used by them in their shows (it never belonged to Virgil). It was also supplied for this segment with Orson.
Blair
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