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Fin Veteran user 322 Posts |
Steven, I'm so glad you like the video I may even dedicate the next one to you. Thanks so much for the support and the advice. After all your other incredibly mature and helpful posts on this forum along with comments regarding David Penn's recent tv appearance which clearly gained you much respect and credibility I have to say I trust your opinion and your judgements completely. Why wouldn't I? Definitely a man with his finger on the very pulse of modern magic, and someone I will be listening closely to at every possible opportunity. Do you do lectures? I mean, apart from here obviously.. I'll be at the front row of your next one.. Yunno, the guy with the notepad, pen, and "I heart Steven Youell" T-shirt.
Ps. The youtube video is now "link only" so everyone can relax.. BUT I must admit I have sent a pm to everyone in the world telling them where it is. OMG! Quick someone, call the exposure police, Fin's at it again. |
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Polo New user 6 Posts |
Quote:
Steven Youell wrote: Why would you want to stand by incorrect and biased conclusions? Let me at least defend myself in here: 2) In case you are talking about the videos involving sleight of hand, because this thread really was about gimmicked effects which have always said to be gimmicked, you may want to check your hands to see what they actually can and cannot do. Anatomy begs to differ. I do not know if magicians of your caliber actually believe in anatomy but I do hope so. 4) I seriously never said that Fin did not do the Hurricane change. Why do you want to put your own twist to it if you can just read the deal here? 5) Ouch. Wait, that was supposed to hurt wasn't it? It's strange that all I basically said was "Liar" and that your dear mature buddy Andrew can get away with "You should take your one post, shut up and go home.", "You're either ignorant here or deliberately lying.", "Youtube mouth-breathing losers" and such. Things worded like "It's so !@#$%^!ed angle-sensitive" sure add to the maturity and like many other things he has said, that was completely false too. I forget to add that he actually said I was right on the "Liar." statement too. Definitely the result of a cogent argument of some kind. I wouldn't be calling anyone a liar if I wasn't absolutely sure of it too. This discussion is obviously just a result of people who question things, getting replies from people who apparently lost their minds and can't find it, and people who are being bashed on for really no reason not being allowed to back themselves up. It has nothing to do with advertising anything. I was a member over at Magic Video Depot. Back then I did not know what to think of Mark really. But I did see how they did everything to bash on him and to make him look bad. Like many others I left and much later, only recently, hooked up with Mark personally. To me it's really clear what was going on there. The fact that Andrew and you are unwilling to hook up with him personally adds to it too. You sure got big mouths and big statuses but if you don't want to be proven wrong, you might want to cut the crap because it doesn't get you or the argument anywhere. |
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Steven Youell V.I.P. 3866 Posts |
Gosh Fin, Mark & Polo
I am wounded to the quick. Your views have injured me and I shall never recover. The fact that you don't like me and can't take me seriously has ruined my reputation. I guess I'll hang my head in shame now. By the way Fin, you asked if I do lectures? Yes. I've lectured at two IBM World Conventions. I've lectured at the Magic Castle three times. I've lectured at GGG twice. I've lectured several times in Canada. I've lectured at MagiFest. That's all I can remember off the top of my head. Since you cannot take me seriously though, I probably won't respond to your futher tirades.... Have a nice day. SEY |
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Fin Veteran user 322 Posts |
Although interesting the list is of no use to me.. It's your NEXT lecture I need to know about so I can get my t-shirt ready!
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Markymark Inner circle 1686 Posts |
Perhaps Mark could just simply sell one of his fantastic creations?
I'm not being sarcastic I just don't understand all this 'Sold out' or 'was available once but not anymore' type thing.
''In memory of a once fluid man,crammed and distorted by the classical mess'' -Bruce Lee
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Fin Veteran user 322 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-13 15:29, Markymark wrote: I can understand some people's confusion over this, but only if you are looking at magic as a purely commercial entity; As something that must be made available to the masses whenever a product is sold; that needs to fall in line with other "businesses" by producing as much of a product as possible with the primary aim of making money. But don't forget "Limited Editions". This is done with music cd's, films, cigarette packs, playing cards, cola cans, watches, cars, etc. The idea of selling just a short run of a product is done for varying reasons and is common practice. With a watch it makes it a "collectors item" and helps drive the price up and bring the brand a feel of higher quality. Why? Well if a brand is not just mass producing all the items it makes but also doing a line of "limited edition" products, it gives the impression that "quality" is actually very important to them, and that it's not just all about the profit. I think the slogan used in theory 11's (very) limited edition JAQK cards highlights what I'm referring to: "A collector's item. A masterpiece. The most elegant decks you've never seen." Correct.. I've never seen them because they're already sold out! lol. But I'm not bitter. To sum up what I think Mark's approach is about, and I may be wrong: It seems to be about quality, not quantity. It's about selling the product to some genuinely interested people so that they can learn it, but not feeling that you HAVE to sell it to ten thousand people and keep selling it forever. Mark is happy, just as someone who paints landscapes or someone who hand-makes furniture, to just sell a few. It's not about SELLING LOADS. And it's not about making sure everyone who wants one gets one. I think he enjoys the process of making his dvd's but is not too interested in spending hours advertising and mass producing, negotiating with other companies, and all the other headaches associated with producing something on a larger scale. In this modern age of the internet many people are approaching business this way. |
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Slide Special user 533 Posts |
Not really comparable examples. In the one case we are dealing with a physical object, the other a digital medium that can be duplicated ad nauseum. Since Mark cannot judge whether anyone is "genuinely interested" or not (there was no hurdle I needed to climb to get the trick: just hand over my money), your implication of some "higher" motive seems genuinely laughable. And the transparency, at least to me, of your defense really insults the intelligence of anyone reading this thread. If Mark truly wants to sell his ideas to genuinely interested people, one imagines he would do it the old fashion way: keeping his secrets to himself.
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Fin Veteran user 322 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-13 20:49, BillMcCloskey wrote: Not quite Bill, in fact not at all, lol. Many of Mark's previous products, the ones that are no longer available, the ones I was referring to when talking about "limited editions", are listed as having been DVD's, with BOOKLETS, and GIMMICKS. I stand by my comparable examples Quote:
On 2011-06-13 20:49, BillMcCloskey wrote: Anyone else have trouble making sense of that or is it just me? |
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Slide Special user 533 Posts |
I'm sorry. I'll be clearer.
Most magicians who historically want to share their secrets with the genuinely interested and deserving keep their secrets to themselves until they actually MEET someone who is genuinely interested and they choose to share their secrets or not. What they don't do is set up a paypal account and start charging to whomever pays the buck and a half. The people who are putting up paypal accounts are doing it for money, pure and simple. Nothing wrong with that, but don't try and imply altruistic motives where none exist. "Many of Mark's previous products, the ones that are no longer available, the ones I was referring to when talking about "limited editions", are listed as having been DVD's, with BOOKLETS, and GIMMICKS." Interesting. You seem to be very knowledgeable about Mark's products, even ones that have been off the market for some time, but you gave me the impression that you were learning about him yourself along with many of the rest of us. Also funny that your second post talks about Mark. Funny also that other people on other forums have only one post and they talk about Mark. He has a lot of fans out there that have never registered on a magic forum before but nevertheless are just wild about Mark's products. |
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Slide Special user 533 Posts |
Here is another interesting thing: you registered here, I assume, because of your love of magic. And yet the only threads you have contributed to (other than your very first post) have been about Mark and his products. One would think that other threads, other sections of the site would be of interest to you, that you might have something to contribute. Or perhaps it is not worth your while to engage in threads that are not about Mark and his products?
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MarkHilkemeijer New user 18 Posts |
Bill, I bet you that there are as many people with one or some posts who posted something about me or my products on the internet as there are people with a hundred or a thousand posts who did that. Just some of those latter ones:
Bietfriek: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......art=0#12 (also read his previous post) Matze: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......art=0#27 LuseifHo: http://forums.theory11.com/showthread.ph......st285722 chriswiehl: http://forums.theory11.com/showthread.ph......-Mark%29 It is quite obvious that the people with the 'most posts' and higher if not highest ranks, such as Steven and Andrew here, don't want to hook up with me personally. Each of the persons from those links actually did have a chat with me personally and Fin and Polo here did too very recently. I have had two pretty long video chats with Fin and you can see that the knowledge he gained is much more than any other assumption maker could ever assume. That is, both the knowledge about the art of magic, my tricks, DarkSleightZ and me as a person. Bietfriek and many others found it very suspicious that they couldn't find many or any reviews for my products. I think I seen that statement in every thread on the internet that questions me. But we now sold a downloadable four times the amount of limited products we sold in the past and still only one or two reviews pop up. How come? Simply because we aren't commercial sellers unlike others. Obviously, most reviews on the internet are posted on either hyped effects or on products that were asked to be reviewed. You can see magicians on here sending free products to others just for the sake of getting reviews and testimonials. Major releases include the most positive quotes by the most notable magicians in the world and each time those quotes get mentioned they are the most positive statements ever too. That, is advertising. And that's the beginning of commercial magic, which I honestly think is killing the art of magic. We live in a very commercial world today so I can understand why people expect reviews and testimonials on every single thing out there, but people should also understand that there is more than what they think there is. Apparently that's one of the most difficult things to realize being a human being. The older, the wiser.. but at the same time closer-minded and thus dumber in a way. |
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Markymark Inner circle 1686 Posts |
I agree with you there.I'm reminded of a book on Tai Chi with the title 'There
are no Secrets'.Of course there are but I think a lot of sleight of hand is VERY hard work.People learn the secret and then give up!
''In memory of a once fluid man,crammed and distorted by the classical mess'' -Bruce Lee
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AlbertV New user Canada 4 Posts |
Just reading these posts, I'm only going to say something very simple as a 3rd party.
1) Make an argument; 2) Find "good" evidence; 3) Explain your evidence; 4) Build it up to as a proof to stand by your argument. Simple as that. I see almost no one doing that here except saying "Blah blah it's fake. Blah blah it's not fake. Blah blah blah." How do you you think ANY arguments or debates are resolved? Doing just the above. In the end, it's not your reputation that proves legitimacy of something. Look at Bernard Madoff (anyone into investing would know his name right away). Brilliant networking with brilliant reputation. No one suspected anything bad about that person, but came down to it that he was a fraud with his Ponzi Scheme. In the end, reputation doesn't prove anything without evidence or proof. If you can do something to get proof without losing anything, then do it. If Mark's willing to go online with you to have a nice video chat, go online for a video chat. If you are avoiding this chance for absolutely no good reason, that's another evidence added for Mark's legitimacy. Seriously, people. I apologize for the rude interruption but this argument is going no where and ridiculous from a 3rd party's point of view. I would at least expect them members here, as adults, to take a more logical and reasonable step. I won't interfere again in this thread. |
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Slide Special user 533 Posts |
Interesting that your very first post to this forum is about Mark and his products. Mark, I wish I had your affiliate marketing team working for me.
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MarkHilkemeijer New user 18 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-14 06:15, Markymark wrote: Indeed. Nowadays people own tons of tricks they never even attempted to perform, and not for the reason they didn't find them performable but just for the sake of owning them. It's a result of a society in which 'having' is more important than 'doing'. When working with ranks for that matter, like in games, many people will try to get the best rank possible because it's so tempting and satisfying to have it but it doesn't necessarily mean the person in question is doing better at the subject in question. Instead, it could also mean that this person took away time to enhance their sleight of hand, performance or thinking skills and used this to post replies instead. Quote:
On 2011-06-13 21:44, BillMcCloskey wrote: I forgot to say, he may as well have just taken a look on the website to make his statement. It literally states DVDs, Booklets and gimmicks right there. Investigation sure does miracles, doesn't it? EDIT: How does this board manage to steal all of our own forumers, and even our artists now? Let me go for a different approach: if you agree with whatever Andrew Musgrave and Steven Youell did and said in here, please let me know. Sure saves me time filtering. Thank you. |
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Slide Special user 533 Posts |
"Investigation sure does miracles, doesn't it? "
Paying people to promote your products on websites can work miracles as well, I would imagine. |
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MarkHilkemeijer New user 18 Posts |
But making extremely false and groundless statements really don't. Bummer, huh?
I didn't tell anyone to sign up and post nor would I even pay a single dime for that. And they didn't tell each to sign up either.. at least not publically. Plus, Albert didn't exactly defend me or so. He just made valid, independent statements everyone should agree with. At least I do. |
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Slide Special user 533 Posts |
"Plus, Albert didn't exactly defend me or so. He just made valid, independent statements everyone should agree with. At least I do. "
Sure he did. |
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MarkHilkemeijer New user 18 Posts |
Sure he defended me? Or made valid, independent statements? Or both?
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Slide Special user 533 Posts |
I'm sure you can figure it out.
Mark, good luck to you. I really have nothing more to add to this thread. You got my buck and a half. It is the last buck you'll get from me. Adios, amigo. |
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