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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The spooky, the mysterious...the bizarre! » » BOA Review (5 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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george1953
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A lot of work and it makes it expensive but worthwhile I think. I have been trying to think of a use for the blank journals. I used to do calligraphy so could make them look good, just need to find a use for the journal.
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Pasteboard Alchemist
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Quote:
On Oct 11, 2014, Magical Dimensions wrote:
I am thinking about buying the BOA and have a question. Since it has spelling mistakes in the book, what do you guys think of buying one of those blank page books and then age it? Once it is aged, then you could hand write all the answers from the BOA into the aged blank page book. I could also add hand drawn pictures, charts and correct the spelling mistakes. Even a small pendulum chart could be placed and used in the book to determine an answer.

What do you guys think?


Funny you should mention this. I've considered doing similar with a couple other books (to make older versions to fit a specific time period I'm after) and have been debating the ethics of doing so. My personal take--and I'm curious of others' thoughts on this--is that as long as I retain the original on my shelf, it should be kosher. For me, the gray area is when a person copies it to their liking, but then sells the original. That feels like stealing from the original creator.

Regarding the aging first and writing second: I've had much better luck writing first and aging second. A quill nib is difficult enough to write with without having to deal with altered paper. There are numerous black, sepia, and payne's grey (depending on the timeframe you're going after) waterproof inks out there that can hold up to any aging process.
Magical Dimensions
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I have already asked outlaw about this. The cost for the book would be about the same as the original. As far as being the ethical thing to do, it would be completely cool to do, once the seller agrees to make you a blank copy and you only make yourself the hand written version. I never thought about selling the hand written copy. It never entered my mind. Why would I?

I like the idea of adding drawings and charts for other effects.



Best
Ray
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Your initial question was about using a pre-made blank page book that isn't from the seller, and that's what I answered and had my own questions about. Obviously, if the seller provided a blank one, then you'd be supporting them (as well as them giving their implied consent to copy the info.) Also, I think you misunderstand regarding my question about selling. I said "...but then sells the original", not selling the hand-written copy. My point being: if someone uses a non-seller-provided blank book (or makes their own blank book from scratch) and copies the content, would it be ethical to sell the original book one copied that information from? This isn't a question directed at what you're doing or your motives--you can obviously do whatever you'd like, however you'd like. Rather, this is a generic question and one I've been contemplating for a while: if one were to purchase a prop and reproduce the content, would it be frowned upon to then sell the original and still perform the method/effect with the copied prop/content? I suspect it would.

The reason I ask is: I've wanted to make a more antiquated version of the Witches @lmanac for some time, using the same method/content. Once I do so, however, I believe I would still hold on to the original Witches @almanac (even if I never intended to use that original copy in my performance again) as I feel the performance rights are essentially "tied" to it.
PROF BC
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Quote:
On Oct 11, 2014, Pasteboard Alchemist wrote:
Your initial question was about using a pre-made blank page book that isn't from the seller, and that's what I answered and had my own questions about. Obviously, if the seller provided a blank one, then you'd be supporting them (as well as them giving their implied consent to copy the info.) Also, I think you misunderstand regarding my question about selling. I said "...but then sells the original", not selling the hand-written copy. My point being: if someone uses a non-seller-provided blank book (or makes their own blank book from scratch) and copies the content, would it be ethical to sell the original book one copied that information from? This isn't a question directed at what you're doing or your motives--you can obviously do whatever you'd like, however you'd like. Rather, this is a generic question and one I've been contemplating for a while: if one were to purchase a prop and reproduce the content, would it be frowned upon to then sell the original and still perform the method/effect with the copied prop/content? I suspect it would.

The reason I ask is: I've wanted to make a more antiquated version of the Witches @lmanac for some time, using the same method/content. Once I do so, however, I believe I would still hold on to the original Witches @almanac (even if I never intended to use that original copy in my performance again) as I feel the performance rights are essentially "tied" to it.


Yes, what you outline is unquestionably unethical. In essence, by selling on the original and keeping a copy one will have gained the method and all the hard work of another for free. Meantime, by selling on the original, one will have robbed the creator of that sale, which is not unethical if one is giving up on the trick entirely when selling it on, but, by keeping a copy, there would now be two performance pieces out there while the creator was paid for only one.

Make a copy if you wish, but keep the original as your contribution to and investment in the creator's work. That is the only ethical thing to do.

Prof BC
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Pasteboard Alchemist
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Thank you, Prof BC. That seemed the only rational conclusion to draw, and I'm glad to have it confirmed in no uncertain terms.
Vic Nadata
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Quote:
On Oct 11, 2014, Magical Dimensions wrote:
I have already asked outlaw about this. The cost for the book would be about the same as the original. As far as being the ethical thing to do, it would be completely cool to do, once the seller agrees to make you a blank copy and you only make yourself the hand written version. I never thought about selling the hand written copy. It never entered my mind. Why would I?

I like the idea of adding drawings and charts for other effects.



Best
Ray


Ray thanks for the interest. However BOA is my creation. Outlaw would have no say on the price or the project. If your interested in talking about this further, you can PM me or email me at vic@geminiartifacts.com

Thanks!
Roth
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Quote:
On Oct 11, 2014, Vic Nadata wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 11, 2014, Magical Dimensions wrote:
I have already asked outlaw about this. The cost for the book would be about the same as the original. As far as being the ethical thing to do, it would be completely cool to do, once the seller agrees to make you a blank copy and you only make yourself the hand written version. I never thought about selling the hand written copy. It never entered my mind. Why would I?

I like the idea of adding drawings and charts for other effects.



Best
Ray


Ray thanks for the interest. However BOA is my creation. Outlaw would have no say on the price or the project. If your interested in talking about this further, you can PM me or email me at vic@geminiartifacts.com

Thanks!

Ray and I have been PMing a lot because we're doing a custom prop for him. He asked a hypothetical question about BOA and this was my responce.

I told him BOA was Vic's product and I could not give him a price. I told him I didn't know what it would cost, but it would probably be the same price as the printed book taking in the cost of binding and the time aging it.
Was just trying to be helpful Smile
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Vic Nadata
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As I know you were my friend.
Magical Dimensions
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Vic,
Didn't mean to cause trouble. Yes, what Rick posted above is exactly what he told me.

Rick is a stand up guy and it was totally my fault that I posted talking to outlaw about the book of answers.

Sorry for any misunderstandings that I may have cause......



Best
Ray
Vic Nadata
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Ok Pay ZERO attention to my previous post. I was on my phone and autocorrect went a bit nutty. I should have checked it. What I really was trying to say was:

I know you were trying to help my friend.

Not a problem at ALL!
Tim Dowd
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Not meaning to hijack the thread... BUT... This was my thinking on selling DVD'S second hand. Once you have the information the DVD is no longer needed, or in worse case scenario, you make a "backup" and then sell the original...

I believe no magic forum should allow trade in second hand DVD'S there are some out there that practice this.
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Peter McMillan
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Http://s48.photobucket.com/user/PeteMcMi......jpg.html

If the link to PhotoBucket works, it will show the mods I made to my BOA. I really like this effect and have adapted several of Vic's ideas to work in my routine. Hope those who know see what I have done to make it my own.

Pete
Spiritus Dictum Artifacts ~ Tools of the Craft for Serious Workers http://petemcmillan.wixsite.com/sd-artifacts/artifacts
ZoOpDoG
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Wow! That looks amazing! I am a BOA fan and that is hands down the most creative mod I have seen. Nice job
Zuke
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Very cool Peter. I also like the way you've worked a square circle into it. Smile
Lo Pan
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Quote:
On Oct 14, 2014, Peter McMillan wrote:
Http://s48.photobucket.com/user/PeteMcMi......jpg.html

If the link to PhotoBucket works, it will show the mods I made to my BOA. I really like this effect and have adapted several of Vic's ideas to work in my routine. Hope those who know see what I have done to make it my own.

Pete


Hi Peter,

Wonderful work! Might I inquire as to where you found the lock with seven keys? I am looking for an effect of this nature and age but am only able to find more modern "Master" type locks that look too new and are too large for my needs.

Thanks- and again, very nicely done!

Lo Pan
Peter McMillan
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Thank you for the kind remarks. I appreciate them very much. The SC was from 5 years ago and some how got into the photo show.

The lock is a 3/4" brass type from the hardware store as is the hasp. Using a dremel tool with dental wheel I took off the coating on the brass and nickle plating, wrapped it in a paper towel and dipped in vinegar/salt solution to age. 6 keys were cut like the original, plus I bought 7 others I cut myself for looks. Again removed the nickle coating on all and soaked in vinegar and salt to age.

Mounting the hasp was the most difficult part. Just takes some time and thinking before cutting.

The corner caps came from the craft store. The blank pages seemed to need something so I put in old photos with captions, strange figures, designs and maps that have been added to the volume over the years by the different owners.

Using the 7 Keys of Baldpate is my way to select the person to get the answer from the BOA. Ending up with the assistants key being bent works in nicely also.

Just building on Vic's original creation. His is the reason I could do this.

Pete
Spiritus Dictum Artifacts ~ Tools of the Craft for Serious Workers http://petemcmillan.wixsite.com/sd-artifacts/artifacts
DocBenWiz
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Very nice work on the enhancements and additions, Peter. I really liked BOA from the moment I obtained it, but admit I have been lax in following through to actually develop the routine and use it. Now I am inspired to do some enhancements and get to work on using it in performance!
Thanks for sharing!
Smile
"Pay no attention to that strange man behind the curtain" (it's only "Doc Benjamin from the Amazing Wizardelia Wagon")
Peter McMillan
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Vic sent the aid for the Thurisaz Gateway Deck and I adapted it for Uncle Ossie's Seance Table. Lots of ways you can go with a great prop like BOA.

Click here to view attached image.
Spiritus Dictum Artifacts ~ Tools of the Craft for Serious Workers http://petemcmillan.wixsite.com/sd-artifacts/artifacts
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