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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Cups and Balls DVD for beginner? (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Bill Palmer
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The only Magic Makers DVD I am familiar with is the one that Eddy Ray did. It has been packaged with and without cups. They wouldn't allow him to correct obvious errors, which made for what I consider to be a poor presentation. Also, he was not allowed to do any crediting at all, according to a friend of mine who knows him.

Regarding the Hocus Pocus, Junior material -- if you try to get it from one of the replica books, you will have a really great amount of trouble. It is very difficult to tell which part of the text is patter and which part of the text is instructional. When I did the transcription of the text, which is available as a free download from the cups and balls museum web site, I set the patter off in italics for ease of reading.

Like any other routine, you should not try to learn it all at once. Learn one phase. Then learn another. In fact, if you have tried to learn this routine from the printed page and you have been unsuccessful, then you probably haven't tried the ideas in this thread --

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=37

If you have trouble understanding the language in Hocus Pocus, Junior, there's a good reason. You don't speak like that. Here's a hint -- your audience probably doesn't either. If you have seen Ricky Jay's history lesson with the cups and balls, you will recall that he gets out of the older idiom rather quickly. He has to. He will lose his audience if he doesn't. So the older language is interspersed with the more modern language, providing variety, but stopping short of boredom.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Dr_J_Ayala
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If anyone has not seen The History Lesson from Ricky Jay, you are missing out! It is an example of pure mastery, great entertainment, great routining and is very informational, from both points of view of the magician and the audience, though I suspect it makes a lot more sense to magicians as far as the references he makes. The lesson (read: story) is very captive - it gets your attention and as Bill said, he holds it to the very end without boring you.

For those that wish to see it, here is a link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgm4wZCACYg
Bill Palmer
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@maxnew --

Do not be tempted to waste your time with the leather cups that one seller has proclaimed to be "authentic for Renaissance Festivals." There is no evidence whatsoever that any performers during that period of time EVER used leather cups. The cups that are being sold as specially made leather cups, suitable for RF performing are nothing more than cheap dice cups which can be found in any train station in Europe for a scant fraction of the cost. They are actually completely unsuitable since there is no recess in the bottom of the cups to keep the balls from falling off them.

The earliest written reference to cup construction states that the cups should be made of brass or crooked lane plate, with the bottom set in a bit so that the balls will stay on top of them.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2011-06-14 17:57, Mr. Woolery wrote:
Bill-

I tried to learn the Hocus Pocus routine and just didn't "get it." I walked through the Mark Wilson routine and the clear pictures helped me to get the concepts. After digesting what was in Wilson, it was a lot easier to understand what is in Hocus Pocus. There are still some moves that are a challenge to me (I'm no C&B expert, by any means).

One of the best things about Hocus Pocus is that we can study a complete 17th century presentation, including patter. What a gift to those who wish to perform in a period style! Are you aware of anyone making a video of the Hocus Pocus routine verbatim? I'd pay money to see it.

The advice about vanishes in Hocus Pocus is indeed vital. But you really have to think about what "due time" means before that makes sense. I had to see it demonstrated before I got it.

Truth is, any basic video that covers a simple routine on cups and balls will be helpful. Seeing the movements, seeing the basic sleights, it all makes it simpler to understand. Want to be a cup and ball expert? Get the Ammar videos and spend a lot of time learning them solidly. Want a basic routine that will entertain a group of friends? You might be happier with a beginner's video like 25 Amazing Tricks or even this one: http://themagicwarehouse.com/cgi-bin/fin......word=CUP just to learn your basics.

-Patrick


Did you see this thread? :

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=37

I have added another clarification comment to it.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
darylrogers
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I agree with Patrick about starting with the Mark Wilson routine. It is a solid routine that goes over well and is a good introduction to the basic moves. I also enjoyed the 25 Amazing Magic Tricks DVD Donnie recommended, there is a lot of information on it for the price.
Mr. Woolery
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Bill-

I had not seen that thread until about 10 minutes ago. I told me wife "I know why he resurrected this thread!" And now I see that I was right! Thank you! It deserved to be brought back into view.

-Patrick
Bill Palmer
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You are welcome. I think it's time for me to translate the Hocus Pocus Junior routine into a more modern English.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Mr. Woolery
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Bill, I would love to see a video of the Hocus Pocus routine being performed as written. That would go a long way for me. Just seeing the whole thing as a piece of magic (especially with decent costume and period-appropriate props, while I'm asking). As far as translating it, why not go all the way and use photos of the moves so there's a side-by-side comparison available between the original and a modern interpretation?

I know, ask for the moon.

-Patrick
Mr. Woolery
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As I think about it more, I would love to buy a good DVD of a skillful performer doing a lot of the repertoire from Hocus Pocus Jr. Since the book is available, the moves don't really have to be explained, though it might be nice. What I'd love is to see a good interpretation of the material from the book actually being performed for a live audience. I'd pay money for that. I don't know who else would, though.

-Patrick
Doc Svengali
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I would like to offer a word of caution or dissenting vote regarding the recommendations that cups and balls beginners start with the Bob White DVD. Bob is an extremely gifted and highly respected magician, but this particular DVD is lacking conceptual organization and coherency of presentation, and at times is inappropriately dogmatic regarding acceptable methods. For example, he demonstrated several visual retention vanishes which he then proceeds to describe as "asinine" and "foolish". The ROV vanishes that he is critical of are performed and recommended by some of the most respected magicians in our field. In another section of the DVD, Bob described variations in implementing the Bosco tilt load sequence such as those used by Michael Ammar and Ross Bertram as unacceptable.

The Michael Ammar two-DVD set gets my vote for a firm foundation in the cups and balls. I would follow up with the three volume World's Greatest Magic series, and pick one of the presented routines to master as your starting point.
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