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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Cups and Balls DVD for beginner? (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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maxnew40
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I am working up a renaissance themed show and the cups and balls were performed in the period. I don't much experience with the cups and balls. I see some info in one of the my Tarbell books, but I would ike to get a DVD. There are so many DVDs on this subject that my head is spinning.

Can anyone recommend a place to begin?

-Max
Donnie Buckley
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Cleveland, Ohio
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Cheap & good with basic moves and the fundamentals:
http://www.rnt2.com/index.php?dispatch=p......id=30466
Learn the form, but seek the formless. Learn it all, then forget it all. Learn the way, then find your own way. Rings-N-Things
Mark Ross
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Batavia, NY
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For its thoroughness of material covered, as well as demonstated routines- starting with simple up to complex- I recommend the 2 DVD set by Michael Ammar. To see a variety of complete, professional routines, I also recommend the 3 cups & balls volumes in L&L's World's Greatest Magic series.

If you can find the Ammar book on C&B, get that also.

Mark
Sir Richard
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Volumes 1 & 2 "Cups & Balls" y Michael Ammar. He starts with beginner & takes it all the way. Easy to understand as well He's selling them for 59% off! http://store.ammarmagic.com/dvds1.html

Sir Richard.
"In the land of Murphy there is but ONE law!"
kentfgunn
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I think, for the money, you wont' get a more detailed explanation from anyone than you will from Bob White's DVD. I just watched it, this weekend. I think he explains everything you could want to know about this great trick. It's available from your favorite dealer.

Here's what one dealer had on his website:
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

There are countless wonderful routines with cups and balls. Max Malini, Al Baker, Sam Horowitz, Charlie Miller, Paul Rosini, Dai Vernon and many other capable performers featured the trick in their close-up performances.

It is a close-up trick! And, it can be performed with paper cups completely surrounded by spectators or with sterling silver cups in a more formal setting.

The difference between a good performer and an expert performer is the manner in which the expert handles the props, makes fake transfers of the balls and deceptively executes the final large loads.

This DVD will help you learn how to correctly do these critical techniques. It also includes a complete routine that can be done with any cups. Or, portions may be incorporated into your present routine. If you are a beginner, this DVD will be invaluable.

Performances and Detailed Explanations of...

The "Practical Routine"
Bob White on Vernon's Ball Vanish
Three Opening Sequences
The Inertia Tip-Off Move
Galloping Post Sequences
Sequences with Charlie Miller's Move
...and much more
Additional Feature
Dai Vernon's Single Cup and Ball Routine
from his 1968 Lecture
Performed and Explained by Bob White

Running Time Approximately 1hr 33min
Pete Biro
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1933 - 2018
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Are you sure he said:
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
Sir Richard
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Quote:
On 2011-06-13 11:08, Sir Richard wrote:
Volumes 1 & 2 "Cups & Balls" y Michael Ammar. He starts with beginner & takes it all the way. Easy to understand as well He's selling them for 59% off! http://store.ammarmagic.com/dvds1.html

Sir Richard.

That should read: 50% instead of 59%...my bad!

Sir Richard.
"In the land of Murphy there is but ONE law!"
kentfgunn
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Pete,

That's not exactly what he said, but is the X-rated version.
professorwhut
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Posts R US sold me
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I really like the Bob White DVD, I like his no nonsense style.
This DVD combined with John Mendoza got me jazzed up a few years ago.
After much soul searching about a signature, I decided not to have one.

TG Pop [aka ProfessorWhut]
Mobius303
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I like some of the material on the Bob White DVD but Like the Ammar ones much better, as far as a learning tool.
Bob sorta has some information wrong that really bugs me on those DVD's.
His technique is very good though.
Mike
Bill Palmer
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I've seen nearly every C&B teaching DVD on the market. From the standpoint of taking a student from zero to proficient, the Ammar DVD's are the best. He starts simply and gives you a workable routine within a very short span of time. The Bob White DVD is good, but I think it is better for someone who already knows something about C&B.

This said, if you don't already have the excerpt from Hocus Pocus, Junior that is on the Cups and Balls Museum web site, then you are planning to work at Renaissance Festivals without the primary source for information on the Cups and Balls as performed during the period in question.

It's a free download. If you aren't willing to at least go that far, then maybe you should consider nor performing the cups and balls.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Mr. Woolery
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Maxnew40-

There are several DVDs on cups and balls. There are also some good books or sections of books. For your purposes, I'm going to suggest you start by looking at two books. First is Mark Wilson's Complete Course in Magic. Work through the cups and balls chapter until you can do the routine. I don't mean you can do it well, just that you can follow the steps and see the logic. Then print out the PDF that Bill Palmer makes very generously available on his wonderful site. Many of the moves you learn from Mark Wilson are similar enough to function for the Hocus Pocus routine, but the real reason I send you to Wilson first is because his book explains it better.

After you can do both routines reasonably well, look to different performances for inspiration. I like the L&L set for this. Craft your presentation to fit you. If you find an in-print or on-video routine that suits you perfectly, use it! If not, modify to suit.

When you have a routine you like, video it and critique yourself.

-Patrick
Bill Palmer
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I would tend to agree with the clarity of the explanations in the Mark Wilson book. The language of Hocus Pocus, Junior is a bit arcane for most modern readers. Master Payne can navigate it with no trouble at all. So can I. But unless you have a smattering of familiarity with Elizabethan English, it may be a bit difficult to understand. However, some of the explanations in Hocus Pocus, Junior are stated much more efficiently than the modern ones. His explanation of how to hold your hand and how timing works is done in far less text than it is done in any modern material.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
JordanB
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I think the first point is to determine what "type" of routine you want to perform. Youtube is a great aid in seeing many different types of cup and ball routines. Once you have determined I would go to the best available source. Bill Palmer should have the best information available on routines suitable for Ren Faire work.

I will be a lone voice of dissent, but I think the Ammar DVD's are a poor choice for a beginner. There is simply too much information and can lead to a "jack of all trades, master of none" trap. The Mark Wilson book is a good place to start, and so is the Vernon Book of Magic if you like the Vernon routine. If you are really interested in the Vernon routine, the Bob's DVD will work for a beginner, but it is a DVD for the serious student.

The Vernon routine is a funny thing. There seem to be two routines...the one the Professor actually did and the one(s) that are taught in print. The routine as he actually performed it can be gleaned from a variety of sources. To learn the routine well then I would recommend studying the Dai Vernon Book of Magic, Stars of Magic, and the Bob White DVD..that should give you enough to put it together. The Bob White DVD will really put the polish on your routine and frankly, there are some fine details on his DVD that aren't in other places. In my opinion the most beautiful part of the Vernon routine is the loading sequence. There are tips on loading from Bob's DVD that you can't find anywhere else. Bob is one of my best friends and I am lucky that I have had a lot of personal instruction from him, especially regarding the cups and balls. I can tell you that the information he has can take your routine from good to excellent. One final tip regarding the Vernon routine. When it is performed well it is a thing of beauty. If you invest the time to learn it then learn it well. There are plenty of examples of it being done poorly on Youtube.
maxnew40
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I have read the Hocus Pocus, Junior on the cups and balls and I agree it is a tough read due to the style of language.

I find that with both a book and a video I can get up to speed more quickly. Often something might not make sense to me when I read it, so then I can watch and it will usually become clear.

I am leaning toward the Ammar videos right now.

-Max
Bill Palmer
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@Jordan:

When going through the Ammar DVD's, the student is not supposed to learn all of it at once. It's like learning how to play the piano or the guitar. You have a progressive learning system.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
JordanB
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Bill, I agree. I don't think it's a bad teaching tool. But I think if you pick them up too early it can possibly lead to some pitfalls. Purely speculating I would guess that over 75% of the people doing a variation of Vernon's or Ammar's routine on Youtube have learned it from the Ammar DVD's. On the flipside, I have seen video of people who learned it from the Vernon book who also butchered the trick....so it may not mean anything.

I've come to the conclusion that opinions on the cups and balls are as wide and varied as the day is long and I'm not convinced there is any absolute in the art of magic.

In my opinion, the key ingredients for cups and balls routine should be a deceptive vanish and a deceptive loading sequence. If that can be accomplished you're 95% of the way there.
atinczor
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Michael Ammar DVD set is the best place to start, IMHO. Once you have the moves down and get the logic, Bob White's DVD should take care of you as far as practicality goes.. I have both sets and cannot recommend one over the other.. You should get them both; but get the Ammar set first.

My 2 cents..

Atinc
Mr. Woolery
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Bill-

I tried to learn the Hocus Pocus routine and just didn't "get it." I walked through the Mark Wilson routine and the clear pictures helped me to get the concepts. After digesting what was in Wilson, it was a lot easier to understand what is in Hocus Pocus. There are still some moves that are a challenge to me (I'm no C&B expert, by any means).

One of the best things about Hocus Pocus is that we can study a complete 17th century presentation, including patter. What a gift to those who wish to perform in a period style! Are you aware of anyone making a video of the Hocus Pocus routine verbatim? I'd pay money to see it.

The advice about vanishes in Hocus Pocus is indeed vital. But you really have to think about what "due time" means before that makes sense. I had to see it demonstrated before I got it.

Truth is, any basic video that covers a simple routine on cups and balls will be helpful. Seeing the movements, seeing the basic sleights, it all makes it simpler to understand. Want to be a cup and ball expert? Get the Ammar videos and spend a lot of time learning them solidly. Want a basic routine that will entertain a group of friends? You might be happier with a beginner's video like 25 Amazing Tricks or even this one: http://themagicwarehouse.com/cgi-bin/fin......word=CUP just to learn your basics.

-Patrick
Mike Maturen
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I know that Magic Maker's has a DVD (several actually) about Cups and Balls. Some are DVD only, and others come with a set of Cups and Balls.

I am an authorized dealer. If you need any info, please feel free to PM me.
Mike Maturen
World of Wonder Entertainment
The Magic and Mayhem of Mike Maturen
989-335-1661
mikematuren@gmail.com

AUTHOR OF "A NEW DAWN--Weekly Wisdom From Everyday Life"

member: International Magician's Society
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