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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Mentally Speaking » » Whisper by Ken Dyne (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Stefmagic
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On 2011-06-22 08:35, brehaut wrote:
On a serious note Bob, have you ever sold a book on a limited basis for a "high" price? If not, are you going to consider it in the future?
Why a future buyer asked for "high" price of future releases ? It's always the need to say to peers, "I have this book...its only a 50 copies release!!!" or " I know something/a secret/a method that almost nobody knows...!!! I don't perform but I know!
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On 2011-06-22 04:26, voh002 wrote:
I have seen the effect live performed by Ken Dyne, and he explained how he did it afterwards. I must be honest to say that I think the book is overpriced. It is a good effect, but even though I'm fairly new to mentalism, there is not much new in Whisper. Just one thing, as I see it. But people are willing to pay 200 pounds for this book so maybe the price is right, because it is the market that determines the price. I will also say that this is for stage use, not for family and friends.

Just to make it clear. I have not read the book myself, and I do not know of supplements that are written by others. I have only seen the effect and the explanation.


Wow--I must say that this post is wrong on several levels. First you are commenting on the price without having the product. Not right. Second, you state "there is not much new in Whisper"---again you don't have the book AND you state your new to mentalism. Third, I assume if you saw the effect you did not know how it was done (if you did know you wouldn't need Kennedy to tell you the explanation). You are kind of like my wife who begs me to tell her how to do an effect and when she breaks me down and I tell her---she says---thats not so good (I rarely tell her anymore for that reason). Keep in mind it is not about the method, it is about the effect. Finally, it does not seem right to me that Kennedy took the time to explain to you how something was done for free and you go on to a forum and state that a book that you have NEVER read is overpriced. Incredible
Davit Sicseek
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Brehaut - Yet again you are exactly right.

If you know what the product consists of, but don't own it - it is essential that you keep your mouth shut. If you really want to tell people that you think the product is over priced, you should buy the product first and then post your views to the forum. Makes perfect sense to me - and this is the only way criticism should happen.
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Mind Guerrilla
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Quote:
On 2011-06-22 09:50, brehaut wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-06-22 04:26, voh002 wrote:
I have seen the effect live performed by Ken Dyne, and he explained how he did it afterwards. I must be honest to say that I think the book is overpriced.


Wow--I must say that this post is wrong on several levels.

Exactly! How can a person who only has seen an effect performed and had it explained to him justify commenting on the book version? Why, the high one gets by inhaling the ink alone might justify the cost. Smile
bobser
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I'd like to do an about turn here if I may (I'm not proud) and agree completely with Parmenion and Brehaut.
Something about that post just didn't seem right.
Unless I'm totally wrong and that Voh002 is simply a guy (lacking perhaps in social skills)who is simply telling the truth.
Anyway what we're winessing hear, once again, is that yes the seller has the complete freedom to sell at what price they like. But the potential buyer also has that same freedom to say what they think of the effect (even unseen) and the price itself. For example you put the prices of the work of Bob Cassidy and PK touches up against this and you simply have to stab yourself with a fork, more than once.
I'll go out on a limb here and simply say that I think the seller was badly advised on the cost of this.
But I'll make a prediction. This is the tip of the iceberg. In fact I'm about to put up a new post right now called: CARTEL.
Why not have a look at it and post your thoughts. Might be fun.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Colin
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Bobser... the works of Banachek and Cassidy are way WAY too cheap!

Depends in what way you value something.

Each to their own... you don't like the price, don't buy it! It's a trick! If the trick sounds like something you'll use buy it! But if the high price is making you wish you knew it purely due to the high price... move on, get off the Café, stop thinking about it and go live a little! They are only tricks guys. The method is solid and worth the price! But then I use it in shows where I get paid good money to perform, so to me it has value.

For the hobbiest, or professional who may use it on the odd occassion... probably not worth it really!

But that is OKAY! For some reason, with the internet now, we feel the need (or some people the right) to know everything. When they don't have access to it, they do anything to get that access. What is funny is that if someone gets it illegally, or someone tells them what it is, they usually miss all the subtleties and just go 'aww... is that it'. They never value it. By investing in something, you get to treasure it.

I've just paid £350 for Obsidian Oblique. I would have paid more happily because the method is something I use a LOT. It comes down to what you value!

Col.
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DekEl
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Quote:
Bobser... the works of Banachek and Cassidy are way WAY too cheap!



Quote:
Each to their own... you don't like the price, don't buy it! It's a trick! If the trick sounds like something you'll use buy it!


Quote:
just go 'aww... is that it'. They never value it. By investing in something, you get to treasure it.


Quote:
It comes down to what you value!


True, True, True, and True. Colin, I think you pack more good sense into a single post then any other post I've read in a week.
You can purchase my works at: http://www.GetMindTricks.com
brehaut
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Quote:
On 2011-06-22 11:57, Colin wrote:

For some reason, with the internet now, we feel the need (or some people the right) to know everything. When they don't have access to it, they do anything to get that access. What is funny is that if someone gets it illegally, or someone tells them what it is, they usually miss all the subtleties and just go 'aww... is that it'. They never value it. By investing in something, you get to treasure it.



Col.


Could not agree more. I had not thought of the internet aspect but it certainly explains why people seem to be almost irrational about effects they have never seen or purchased. I mean do people get this upset over a $90,000 Mercedes? No, because if they can't afford it or don't see value in it they simply do not purchase it. They certainly don't go around trying to demonize Mercedes.
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On 2011-06-22 08:35, brehaut wrote:

On a serious note Bob, have you ever sold a book on a limited basis for a "high" price? If not, are you going to consider it in the future?


I don't really want to derail this thread, it's not about me. But, yes, I have done that a few times for an extremely limited market, and I do charge quite a bit for consulting work.

Good thoughts,

Bob
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I think: "How much is a new effect or really usable nugget of wisdom worth to me?" A killer effect that can make my show better...in terms of dollars and cents, how much would you pay?

On one hand is the mass market effect, sold for twenty bucks that is magic/mentalism's flavor of the week...that everyone is doing. (How much would the average magician pay if they were one of a handful of people who know the secrets to the Invisible Deck?)

On the other hand comes the complaint that we don't protect our secrets enough in this business -- and that there SHOULD be knowledge kept secret among the true practitioners.

And on the third hand (we should never have tampered with nature Smile )is the cold reality that those who teach us, those who create effects, deserve to be paid for their time. In an age of illegal downloads and the cheapening of secrets, how do Cassidy or Osterlind make a buck sharing what they know? What price is "fair" for the exchange of knowledge and expertise they offer?

So -- I don't know anything about the book that started this discussion. I don't know anything about the author.

But I DO know that I spent $60 on an eBook called Stunners and am still mining great material out of it. I still go back to read Cassidy's work on pendulums and the fundamentals of mentalism because I always learn something.

And I know without a doubt that I would be nowhere near mentalism if I hadn't picked up Osterlind's DVD teachings from a guy named Corinda (who I had also just barely heard of) and had my mind blown by what I saw.

So the question "How much is a book worth" isn't the right query. It is "How much is a book worth to YOU?" (Assuming you've ascertained it's not a great steaming pile of bull cr*p someone threw together in their basement.)

David
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mindpunisher
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On 2011-06-22 10:26, Davit Sicseek wrote:
Brehaut - Yet again you are exactly right.

If you know what the product consists of, but don't own it - it is essential that you keep your mouth shut. If you really want to tell people that you think the product is over priced, you should buy the product first and then post your views to the forum. Makes perfect sense to me - and this is the only way criticism should happen.


I don't agree I appreciate that imput. Why should someone have to buy something to have an opinion whether its worth it or not? Lets says I saw a performer do an effect then later on he asked me if I wanted buy it and I said no I don't think its worth it. Are you saying I must buy the secret before I can have an opinion.

This is one of the big problems in mentalism we are often asked to pay a lot of money without seeing something. In fact 9 times out of 10 the marketing deliberatly leaves out information or we would be able to work it out and realise what we are really buying.

However in this case Kennedy explains things in simole detail. Going by his description I personally don't think its worth £200 even if it plays exactly like he says. There are loads of effects around that would play just as well that I probably already have or could buy for a fraction of the cost. So for me it wouldn't be worth the "investment". Plus I am not doing that many shows these days anyway but even if I was theres plenty of material around.

I also don't see anything wrong with the "tada" moment he talks about.

But I like his style Im pretty sure hes going to do well in life in the future mentalism wise or not..At least hes getting talked about. I like his brass neck.
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Quote:
On 2011-06-22 14:20, mindpunisher wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-06-22 10:26, Davit Sicseek wrote:
Brehaut - Yet again you are exactly right.

If you know what the product consists of, but don't own it - it is essential that you keep your mouth shut. If you really want to tell people that you think the product is over priced, you should buy the product first and then post your views to the forum. Makes perfect sense to me - and this is the only way criticism should happen.


I don't agree I appreciate that imput. Why should someone have to buy something to have an opinion whether its worth it or not? Lets says I saw a performer do an effect then later on he asked me if I wanted buy it and I said no I don't think its worth it. Are you saying I must buy the secret before I can have an opinion.

This is one of the big problems in mentalism we are often asked to pay a lot of money without seeing something. In fact 9 times out of 10 the marketing deliberatly leaves out information or we would be able to work it out and realise what we are really buying.

However in this case Kennedy explains things in simole detail. Going by his description I personally don't think its worth £200 even if it plays exactly like he says. There are loads of effects around that would play just as well that I probably already have or could buy for a fraction of the cost. So for me it wouldn't be worth the "investment". Plus I am not doing that many shows these days anyway but even if I was theres plenty of material around.

I also don't see anything wrong with the "tada" moment he talks about.

But I like his style Im pretty sure hes going to do well in life in the future mentalism wise or not..At least hes getting talked about. I like his brass neck.


I appreciate your point of view but again you are critical of the effect and you have not bought the book. I have yet to see anyone who has paid their hard earned money to buy the book be critical of it. I think that says volumes.
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I was mocking Brehaut. Is is of course exactly wrong. Something he seems to be consistent in when it comes to this issue. Witness him falling over himself in a frenzy of his own excitement while he attempts to justify why reducing the already imprefect information that a consumer holds in regards to a mentalism purchase is good for the art.
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mindpunisher
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>>>>>But that is OKAY! For some reason, with the internet now, we feel the need (or some people the right) to know everything. When they don't have access to it, they do anything to get that access. What is funny is that if someone gets it illegally, or someone tells them what it is, they usually miss all the subtleties and just go 'aww... is that it'. They never value it. By investing in something, you get to treasure it.

I've just paid £350 for Obsidian Oblique. I would have paid more happily because the method is something I use a LOT. It comes down to what you value!

Col. <<<<<<<

I agree with you to a point Colin however Ive spent a lot of money on crap that I can tell you I DON'T treasure. And why on earth did you pay all that money for OO? I offered you my copy three or four times for only £100 over a period of a year.

£350 is crazy money. Does it become more desirable when you can't get it cheaper? I think a lot of people's psychology works this way with "collectors".
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Oh My. I´m not the kind of guy who will argue with someone here on the Café, but when I am compared to a member's wife then it is time to say stop, hehe. To make this clear. I was on an lecture with Kennedy, and he showed the effect in detail, and how it was done. And when I saw it was published, I thought it was overpriced. But maybe the supplement make this worth it, but I will think it is based on the same effect. It is just my thoughts on the subject, so please stod telling me that I´m lying, and after working in the police for a decade I am such a good judge of character that I would never claim that someone has low social skills just from a single post on a forum Smile It must be possible to discuss anything objectively without sarcasm. Just my thoughts. Have a nice day Smile
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Quote:
On 2011-06-22 12:15, brehaut wrote:
I mean do people get this upset over a $90,000 Mercedes? No, because if they can't afford it or don't see value in it they simply do not purchase it. They certainly don't go around trying to demonize Mercedes.

A $90000 Mercedes is worth $90000.
I am not a star, but I am driving one.
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bobser
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On 2011-06-22 18:02, voh002 wrote:
after working in the police for a decade I am such a good judge of character


LMFAO. Funniest line I've read on here for some time. Thankyou!
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[quote]On 2011-06-22 12:05, DekEl wrote:
Quote:
Bobser... the works of Banachek and Cassidy are way WAY too cheap!
/quote]
Quote:
Each to their own... you don't like the price, don't buy it! It's a trick! If the trick sounds like something you'll use buy it!

Quote:
just go 'aww... is that it'. They never value it. By investing in something, you get to treasure it.

Quote:
It comes down to what you value!


True, True, True, and True. Colin, I think you pack more good sense into a single post then any other post I've read in a week.


Wait a minute. DekEL. Just one page ago, with regard to this same topic you wrote:
"Keeping it out of the hands of the masses is one thing. Exorbitant prices is another." Is someone threatening you?
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
voh002
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Quote:
On 2011-06-22 18:57, bobser wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-06-22 18:02, voh002 wrote:
after working in the police for a decade I am such a good judge of character


LMFAO. Funniest line I've read on here for some time. Thankyou!


Well, my google translater is not always up to date with the translations Smile
Mind Guerrilla
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Quote:
On 2011-06-22 14:26, brehaut wrote:
I have yet to see anyone who has paid their hard earned money to buy the book be critical of it. I think that says volumes.

It was my understanding that they are taking pre-orders and the book won't be released til next month.

Besides, sometimes SILENCE speaks volumes too. I have seen expensive items hyped before release and then,afterward, you can hear nothing but crickets. I recall last year holding off on buying something until someone posted a review. No one did. But what many did do was post in "Let's Make a Magic Deal!" that they were selling their copy. That should have been the tip off but it did enable me to check it out at a lower price.

So, not seeing criticism doesn't necessarily mean that people like something. It can mean A) They don't want to rock the boat B) They don't want people to know they were suckered and/or C) They don't want to diminish their chances at re-selling it at a decent price.
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