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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Polly wants a cracker... » » Dove Fly Back (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Mattia
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Dear Friends,
how many different ways of training exist for the fly back? What do You prefer? Is the "lack of food method" dangerous for the dove? What method requires less time to master?
Markgician
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Mattia

Dan Sperry's method is superb if you combine it with other training methods, but then again, flyback birds in an act has factors to be considered, like proper lighting.

All the best,
Mark
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Dynamike
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I like Tony Clark's method.
Markgician
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Dan Sperry's method is superb if you combine it with other training methods, but then again, flyback birds in an act has factors to be considered, like proper lighting, if you're talking about doing a s****e toss, then proper lighting would really be a must, the bird should turn around and look for you and only you right after it is tossed or produced via s***** toss.

All the best,
Mark
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Fábio DeRose
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I further train my birds under absolutely impractical conditions once they know what to do (That is, when they do ausbolutely automatic flybacks). I set up as many distractions as possible - food, perches, etc - as to make sure that, no matter what, they WILL come to me.

As a result they don't do only flybacks: they fly to wherever I am at and won't rest until they're with me. This allows me to use them outdoors without any worries. Sure this is not 100% fail-proof, but, again, they are so well trained that when I whistle they come to me without thinking twice.

For starters, Sperry's method combiner with Tony Clark's is the way to go.
Fábio De'Rose - Ilusionista
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Mattia
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In what does Tony Clark method consist? Can I find it on a dvd? Does the cafè rulement allow us to talk about that method in details? I explain You the method I'm using now:I start with the hand to hand training until the can fly 180 degrees around me. Than I start tossing them with their head looking at me. When they learned to be tossed,to fly 180 degrees and to return to my hand, I put a 500 W lamp shining in front of me,so the dove can't see in the light and fly back. When the dove come back to my hand I let he eat. Then day by day I try without the lamp. Could it be a good way to train them?
Dave Scribner
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Mattia, while we don't mind helping you, I would suggest you invest in some dove videos. You can watch them over and over and pick out what you want and you'll always have a reference. Some good ones are Tony Clarks unmasked and unmasked 2, Andy Amyx doves 101, the encyclopedia of dove magic, and while a bit pricey..Greg Frewins complete course in dove magic. There are many others.

To answer your question though, your training method seems to be fine although I don't agree with tossing the dove out backwards with it's head facing you. It doesn't look natural when the audience sees it. A truly trained dove should come out facing away from you and turn to return.
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Dynamike
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Fábio DeRose
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Quote:
On 2011-06-18 07:26, Dave Scribner wrote:
To answer your question though, your training method seems to be fine although I don't agree with tossing the dove out backwards with it's head facing you. It doesn't look natural when the audience sees it. A truly trained dove should come out facing away from you and turn to return.


I think he meant doing this for the dove's first long tosses. Although Shimada used to produce doves with their heads facing towards himself, which despite allowing a rather easier and quicker "loading" of the bird on the "you-know-where", it truly ruins its feathers. And yeah, doesn't look any natural when the producion happens, but I kinda digress on this one, since to the lay audience it truly looks like a pair of gloves morphs into a live bird when tossed into the air, hah.
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Mattia
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Quote:
On 2011-06-18 07:26, Dave Scribner wrote:
Mattia, while we don't mind helping you, I would suggest you invest in some dove videos. You can watch them over and over and pick out what you want and you'll always have a reference. Some good ones are Tony Clarks unmasked and unmasked 2, Andy Amyx doves 101, the encyclopedia of dove magic, and while a bit pricey..Greg Frewins complete course in dove magic. There are many others.

To answer your question though, your training method seems to be fine although I don't agree with tossing the dove out backwards with it's head facing you. It doesn't look natural when the audience sees it. A truly trained dove should come out facing away from you and turn to return.


Dear Dave,
All the advices You and other magicians gave me are very helpful and important. I've only put the discussion about the fly back in another topic,so it could be useful also for other magicians. It was in "first approach with my doves", so I throught to make a more appropriate topic. I ask many things, but understand all the answers. Maybe other magicians need this advices and with that new topic they can find it easily. About the "reverse" tossing, I use it only for the first part of the training: I toss them from my hands, not from s...
Fábio DeRose
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Yeah, doing S. T.'s with the bird "reversed" absolutely blows. Plus, the bird will have less room for breathing and should be produced ASAP - something you don't need to worry about if the bird is loaded the "classic" way. As for the feathers being ruined, just use something to guide the bird, like Andy Amyx shows on his Doves 101 DVD. This can be made out of an old X-ray plastic.
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tropicalillusions
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Quote:
On 2011-06-17 21:56, Fábio DeRose wrote:
I further train my birds under absolutely impractical conditions once they know what to do (That is, when they do ausbolutely automatic flybacks). I set up as many distractions as possible - food, perches, etc - as to make sure that, no matter what, they WILL come to me.

As a result they don't do only flybacks: they fly to wherever I am at and won't rest until they're with me. This allows me to use them outdoors without any worries. Sure this is not 100% fail-proof, but, again, they are so well trained that when I whistle they come to me without thinking twice.

For starters, Sperry's method combiner with Tony Clark's is the way to go.


Fabio, man we would love to see some video of this. I need this whistle technique in my repertoire. I will be air mailing my birds to you for summer camp, whistling flyback 101. Would just love to see some bird work... please share.
Fábio DeRose
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Hey Chris,

I'll try to get some of my bird work on film soon.Thi month's been crazy busy, but only a couple stage shows.

BTW, for the whistle thing I start training them as soon as they begin doing flyback training. Whe they are about to turn I whistle and let them come. Then I whistle again as they get their reward. Takes areal while for them to get the idea, but it sure works.
Fábio De'Rose - Ilusionista
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tropicalillusions
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You can Pm me any links when it is done if you don't want it public I understand, If I can get your lattitude and longitude, I will let my birds out of the aviary, and have them start flying your way for their training....LOL. Look forwaRD to the footage.
Dave Scribner
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Mattia, I understand but there really isn't a reason to start a new topic with each of your questions if you are just posting them to make a current topic. You can add to an existing topic and bring it to the foreground.

Fabio, I realize he meant the reverse tossing as a beginning but in my opinion, this requires double training. The bird learns to fly directly back because it sees the magician right away. Turning it around after that means it has to learn all over again. I totally agree with you about the damaged feathers with the reverse load. They not only get ruffled but have a good chance of being broken. I know Shimada did it this way and far be it from me to question a master like him, I just don't like it.
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Mattia
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Is it the s. tossing dangerous for the dove's feet?
Fábio DeRose
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Not if you make sure that their nails are well trimmed and the s. is made of good quality f****c - as in the kind that does not let nails easily catch on.

You can further prevent any accident by adding some black gaffer's tape (Or whatever color you need) underneath the place where the bird is loaded. That is not absolutely necessary, though.
Fábio De'Rose - Ilusionista
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Mattia
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Is it necessary to clip their nails? I am not able to do this and I know it's very easy to cut their flesh.
Dave Scribner
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Mattia, all that is necessary is that you cut the very tip of the nail so it isn't sharp and yes it's necessary. It not only stops the nails from catching on the material whether in a sleeve or a dove bag, but they keep growing and if you don't trim them, they will curl and can cause infections to the birds. All you have to do it be careful not to cut into the blood line which is very visable in the nail. Always keep some nail quick handy just in case you do nick the line. A small dab of nail quick (or flour and water if you can't get the quick) will stop the bleeding. If you'd rather not clip the nails, you can use an emery board or nail file to just remove the tip of the nail.
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Mattia
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One of my doves is without the last part of the feet(including nails). I don't know why,but I think it's something congenital. He's got some problems in balance,but I use it anyway(It only took more time for him to learn). The "cut" is very precise and symmetrical so I don't think it's caused by the farmer who treated him badly. Now the dove learned how to balance himself also when he's on my hands,and he never fly away,so I think I can use it anyway in my act. What is your opinion? Do You know why?
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