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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts 
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Quote:
On 2011-06-27 15:21, gdw wrote: Are you talking about a moral right, or a legal right, or an American constitutional right?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-06-27 15:52, LobowolfXXX wrote: Well, I would actually say you technically still have the "right" to say what you want on their property, you just don't have a right to be on their property. You are allowed there by the owner as a privilege. You also agree to whatever terms they set, as it is their property. So they can set the consequences of breaking those terms.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-06-27 23:06, gdw wrote: That's what I thought you meant, which is why "Private Property" doesn't explain it. You're talking about limitations set by private property owners by virtue of the fact that they own the property. But "Fire in a crowded theater" isn't a house rule at movie theaters based on their ownership (or leasehold interest) in the property; you're still talking about laws set by legislative bodies for public safety concerns. It has nothing to do with the property or business owner's right to set private rules and restrictions.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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Which is why the cliche is about saying "Fire!" in a crowded theater, and not something like, "The First Amendment doesn't give one the right to say, 'The Celtics are better than the 76ers' in a crowded theater."
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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Lobo, do you think, were it not declared in law, it wouldn't be something held up by the theaters themselves?
There's no law prohibiting testing in theaters, but, as mentioned in a previous thread, theaters are enforcing this themselves. I've not been arguing that the fire example is not in law, but simply that it is not needed in law as an explicit exception to the first amendment. Also, considering it was initially used to justify censoring anti draft and anti war speech, well, I don't think much more need be said to show it was/is an abuse of government power.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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Also, the Celtics/76ers example, depending on the bar, could very likely be prosecuted under the same laws if it "incites" a riot.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-06-27 23:20, gdw wrote: Texting, similarly, is not the point. The question isn't whether you can get thrown out of the theater for yelling fire; it's whether you can face serious legal consequences. The case was about the "Clear and present danger" test; not about a private property owner's right to limit speech. Whether the hypothetical theater is private (or, indeed, on public property, as there's no reason a theater might not be) is entirely irrelevant to the analysis or the legal principle that was at issue. Justice Holmes wasn't pointing out that a theater owner is legally permitted to throw you out of his theater if you yell fire (as the texter was thrown out).
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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I know that's not what Holmes was trying to say, my point is that it's not a good example, and even worse of one when trying to justify censoring anti war speech.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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It's a great example for the point that was being made.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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Also, I was not suggesting that the theater owner could "just" throw them out. They could have the provision be that, upon entering the theater, you agree to be accountable for any damages caused should you "note" something.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts
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As I said Glenn, WAY out of your depth here. Swim to the shallow end for now ok? The fire in a theater example illustrated the point perfectly. Now you can change it to whatever nonsense example you like, but the fact is you are completely ignorant of what it is I was saying. Lobo has far more energy than I do to explain it to you.
What "damages" exactly do you propose are going to happen from a text? I am quite curious. You are really going the long way round the barn just to not admit you are not quite comprehending the concept. Now don't forget we are talking about reality, not GDWville.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-06-27 23:42, gdw wrote: Should have said "should you "incite" something, referring to "fire" or the like, not texting Danny.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts
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Doesn't help your case much.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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Sure Danny.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts
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Well tell us exactly how "private property" covers it then. Go ahead.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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Already did Danny.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-06-27 23:10, LobowolfXXX wrote: Read here Glenn. Your arguement has no footing. Wanna try again?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-06-27 23:42, gdw wrote: Suppose a patron signs such an agreement, then comes into the crowded theater and shouts, "Fire!" Suppose further that in the ensuing panic, three people are killed, fifteen people are injured critically, eighty-five people receive minor injuries, and there is considerable property damage. Who will assess the damages for which this patron is accountable? Who will enforce the agreement? What will they do if the patron cannot underwrite the damage assessment? |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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Supose he was incited to shout fire.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-06-28 21:39, S2000magician wrote: In other words, you are saying there would be a demand in the market for the service of backing contracts and dispute resolution? Well then such dispute resolution organizations would enforce the agreements. Not everything needs to be backed by guns.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Posted: Jun 27, 2011 07:52 pm 
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