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M&M Magic Regular user 116 Posts |
I was thinking about getting doves. How many should I get? The most important question is, is it a good idea to get doves?
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Sounds like you are doing nicely and that you have plenty of confidence.
My advice on using doves stands. raise them as pets first, so you completely understand what is involved with that before subjecting them to magic props and crowds of people (especially an audience of kids). You won't regret the patience exercised, but I'm sure you'd want to avoid any regrets because of impatience. I raised and used doves for a long time, until my son was born and was diagnosed with asthma. The birds had to go. But during that time, I had as many as 20 birds. I also had a rabbits and a duck, as well as dogs, cats, snakes, and lizards. As you can imagine, it is a serious commitment. I'm just hoping you do understand that. Regarding illusions, as you have posted that question on another Café forum, if you already have 3 illusions, you are surely aware of what is involved enough to have some grasp on what materials are involved. If you want to build your own, then start with plans and make your own lists of materials and go to the lumber yard and the hardware store to get prices. That topic was recently discussed on the Café, and I suggest you find and read that info, as it will be of a lot of help. I am having a very nice day, thank you! I wish you the same.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
M&M Magic Regular user 116 Posts |
Michael: Thank you! I will take doves into consideration. You were committed! About the illusions: I do know that it is difficult. I just wanted one just to see how building them are. What topic was it? Thank you!
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Fábio DeRose Inner circle San Paolo, Brasile 1477 Posts |
Check the 'Dove Resources' sticky post. It has plenty of helpful insight both from Magicians and people who just raise Doves as pets. Safe to say it is a HUGE commitment despite these bids being of all-around low cost maintenance and easy to tame.
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Dave Scribner Assistant Manager Lake Hopatcong, NJ 4849 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-23 09:53, M&M Magic wrote: M&M, the simple answer to your question is "none". Getting doves should be the last step you should take if you want to do dove magic. Once you get them, if dove magic isn't your cup of tea, you're stuck with the birds. Invest in some books or dvd's like Tony Clark' unmasked series, Andy Amyx's doves 101 and Greg Frewins' enclyclopedia of dove magic. Each of these will explain what it takes to raise, train and live with doves. Once you go through those resources, you'll know whether or not you have the space, time and money to be a dove magician.
Where the magic begins
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M&M Magic Regular user 116 Posts |
Thanks guys! =)
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Libis New user 39 Posts |
This is what it is like for me to have doves:
I have six doves at home (4 ringnecks, 2 diamonds). Out of all of those birds, there are maybe two who I think might do alright with magic. These two are my baby ringnecks that my adult pair had this spring. I've worked with these two since their eyes opened (note: their parents fed them, I played with them in increasing amounts of time as they got old enough to handle it. When they weaned I started feeding them seeds from the palm of my hand every morning and evening before and after work and making sure that they would drink.) Even then, the young male loves to fly so much and is a bit naughty sometimes about whether he wants to listen to commands or not. I almost wish he were a pigeon, though, because I think he'd love to have the freedom of loft-flying (though I wouldn't dare fly a single bird without a flock with how many hawks we have.) The little hen is a sweetie and loves to go to sleep in my hand. I'm also not sure I have the knowledge yet to train them for magic. The birds all take a lot of work, and all of the ringnecks need to fly out in the house for exercise. (The diamonds are in a large enough cage for their size that it is not needed. The cage dwarfs them, and they are so high-strung that I fear they would run into a wall. They did the last time I let them out in the bathroom if that is any measure--don't worry, they weren't injured.) The babies are easy to catch, but the parents are little buggers at times. The cockbird is very like a Persian cat in nature. He is completely tame, with no fear of me at all--such that he's a pig if I give him treats from my hand, but he likes to get his way. He likes to sit at the top of shelves and watch everyone and be nosy about what you're doing and make messes. He doesn't like to be touched unless he is jealous of another bird. My hen was raised in an aviary setting by other birds. She is so beautiful (orange pearled in color) that I wish I could get her to trust me. I've been trying to tame her since December and it is very slow going. She is still very wild. To catch her, I sometimes need to turn out the lights. Then there are the smells--nesting poops in particular are bad. When the doves nest, they hold it for about 12 hours at a time (each parent takes a shift--the male during the day, the female at night). It makes that part of the house reek. I have to change the papers just about every day while they are doing this. (Plus the weaned babies in the baby cage are so messy that they make me have to clean their's every day. Today they managed to splash all of the water out of the bowl by taking a bath--soaking new papers. *facepalm*) I'm also allergic to them. They have a lot of dander and they shed feathers like crazy. They will fill a room with dust quite easily. For this reason, I've recently ordered a Honeywell air purifier. It's getting to the point that I sound like a smoker. (They all live in my room.) I'm trying to think what else. Well, there's territorial issues. When the babies were just barely weaned, my cockbird started pecking them trying to force them to leave because he already wanted to start another clutch. This was a bit early timing-wise and could have been a huge problem if my babies weren't smart and weaned early (3.5 weeks. They can wean as late as 5 or 6 weeks depending on mutations, parents, etc.) If parents neglect a baby too early, you end up learning how to handfeed them Kaytee Exact. I got lucky this time. Anyway, now when Edmund sees the babies he tries to attack them pretty viciously--flinging himself against the cage bars, so I can't let all of the birds out at once. Not long after the babies were weaned, the little female got a bacterial infection. This happens sometimes with the babies and can be deadly if left untreated. Her symptoms (fluffed up with a fever--also had cold feet from fever, and bright green poos) could have been a number of other things, and so I definitely needed a vet's tests and prescription. I found myself a good avian vet who is actually reasonable as far as vets go and a really nice guy and got her all fixed up with some antibiotics. This cost $84 for the first visit and $25 for a followup appointment I made just in case. Every day in the morning and evening for 5 days mom and I had to get a single drop twice daily into the little bird. This got interesting around my two job schedules and my intern schedule at the zoo. As a result the babies also decided that being let out every day at 6:30 am is the routine. Doves find routines very important and are happiest when they are kept. Guess who squeaks every morning if I don't let them out at 6:30 now? lol I really love my birds, but they are definitely unique little guys with a lot of work to put behind them. Here are some references on dove-keeping: http://www.internationaldovesociety.com/RNColorPics/faq.htm http://www.dovepage.com/species/domestic......ove.html http://www.dovepage.com/species/domestic......eck.html http://www.diamonddove.info/bird11%20Ringneck.htm
"Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens." J.R.R. Tolkien
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Mattia Regular user 128 Posts |
In my opinion the right thing is to buy them and use for about 6 months as pets. Then try to hold them,to let them eat on your hands. This sounds easy,actually it's not:at the beginning I was more scared of the birds than they were of me. Then start taking them off their cage. Remember:they can't talk,but after a bit of training You can clearly see how they are feeling from their body motions. If You think it's a good idea,then start the training; if You discover that it's not for You, they are always beautiful pets!
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Dave Scribner Assistant Manager Lake Hopatcong, NJ 4849 Posts |
Mattia, this really isn't good advice. The first step as has been mentioned many times before is to read and watch as much information about doves and dove magic as you can before buying them. You can even practice using balled up gym socks. The size and shape is almost identical to a dove and you can tell if you really want to do dove magic. It also gives you a chance to evaluate your situation to be sure you have the time, space and patience to raise doves.
If everything is a fit, then and only then should you go out and get some doves. What you have suggested as far as getting to know your doves is standard training which should be learned from all the reading and video watching you have done. In short, buying doves first and then getting the information is putting the cart before the horse and isn't a good thing for the doves.
Where the magic begins
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Mattia Regular user 128 Posts |
Dear Dave,
saying this,I assumed that the first thing is to make sure You have the time to care and feed doves,a place where they can stay and obviously patience. I think that a person with a bit of common sense does this also if anyone tells him. But when You buy doves(if You decide to buy them) I think it's a good idea to use them as pets for a while. I think it's a good way to learn something about their behavior and personality. Than if something change(for example You change idea about doing dove magic),they always are beautiful pets. Also if You use them as pets, You still need patience,time and a place to put them: You only don't use them in magic acts. They can live even 30 years,so I think that first question before buy should be:"Will I be so patient to take care of them for so much time?". If You really feel ready, I think that You can buy them. It's only my opinion,maybe it's not right but I think it's a good idea to share with other and discuss. Magically Yours, Mattia |
Dave Scribner Assistant Manager Lake Hopatcong, NJ 4849 Posts |
Quote:
I assumed that the first thing is to make sure You have the time to care and feed doves,a place where they can stay and obviously patience. I think that a person with a bit of common sense does this Mattia, if you scan through the posts in this forum, you'll see that many times, people get their doves and then find out they either can't handle them or don't really want to do dove magic. I'm not sure what your definition of "keeping them as pets" is. If you do the proper research first and then purchase the doves, there is no reason to just keep them in a cage and feed them. You should start getting used to them and them to you right away. This is where the training comes into play.
Where the magic begins
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IDOTRIX Elite user Darien,il 467 Posts |
I made my son produce sweat socks for six months, and read everything on the Internet about caring and feeding for them. I quized him daily. He got the doves and I couldn't be prouder of the way he cadres for them. They don't get discarded into the corner after he is done with them.
Get James Dimmares videos The Dove Whisperer. $60.00 for the set, which is probably the price of six doves. If that is to much to pay for you you can't afford doves. James is brutally honest on the video, than maybe you can decide if you have the time and patients to take care of them. Hope this helps, sorry have to go take care of my extended family, whoooo are waiting for me to clean the cage, water and feed them, and exercise train them for the next hour. Make a good decision. |
Mattia Regular user 128 Posts |
Quote:
I'm not sure what your definition of "keeping them as pets" is. If you do the proper research first and then purchase the doves, there is no reason to just keep them in a cage and feed them. You should start getting used to them and them to you right away. This is where the training comes into play. Dear Dave, I agree with You. If You think about it properly before buying them,this shouldn't happen. But producing socks is very different from producing doves,and if,after researches and so on, a magician sees that for some reasons dove magic isn't for him, he should stop and not continue doing dove magic badly only because they bought doves and they want to do dove magic at all costs. |
Dave Scribner Assistant Manager Lake Hopatcong, NJ 4849 Posts |
The purpose of using the socks is to be sure dove magic is what you want to do before buying the doves and being "stuck" with an unwanted family member. Properly rolled sweat socks are the same size, shape and weight of a dove.
Buying doves should be the very last thing that is done. Read, watch videos, practice and then decide.
Where the magic begins
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Fábio DeRose Inner circle San Paolo, Brasile 1477 Posts |
Couldn't agree moe.
One should know how to handle the doves as if they were weightless. |
Libis New user 39 Posts |
I agree with the need for much more research.
Also, are you prepared to wake up to this every morning?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGJzVRBmKbA
"Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens." J.R.R. Tolkien
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windrunner New user 86 Posts |
My wife and raze doves. If you want to use them for magic, I think it is best to start when they are very young. My wife start handling them before they leave the nest. We have sold dove to several magician and all of them were very happy because they were ready to be trained for their show. So as a young magician, before you buy any dove make sure you have the time and the dedication to make them your partner on stage. There are no short cuts.
Bryan Blankenship
"the alter ego of" VanDoren the Magician |
Mattia Regular user 128 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-08-27 19:39, windrunner wrote: I agree. When I bought my doves they were not young so it took about 2 months before they let me get close to them. I let them eat from my hand, etc... It was very difficult! I think baby doves are easily to tame. |
LaurensMalter Regular user Belgium 131 Posts |
- A cage where they can fly in, even if they don't have to fly in the show.
- The props to use them with in your show. - Vet costs, they're your partners, they don't work for you, you work together, treat them like that. - Food & Health products (shiny feathers, breeding & condition mix). - The bird will be ready to perform when they want, not when you want, rush them and all your work will be lost. - Companions, having only 1 bird because you only need 1 is not good.. - Patience, 1 dove might be ready after 3 weeks, another one might take several months before it does what you want it to. - Risk, when working with animals, you have little or no control, if they decide to fly away, they will.. - Public opinion is changing, not so long ago it was cute to see a chimp riding a bike, now having a dove on stage is cruel (Not everyone will be entertained, I've had people leave the theater when they heard animals were involved..) These are some of the things you need to think about when working with animals, not to mention the possible nightmare if one would die during the show (my biggest fear, not only the audience's reaction, but they're my 'colleagues' aswell) If after 4,5 years of doing magic you have to ask 'strangers' if you should get doves, your probably not ready yet.. But that's just my opinion.. My family owns a zoo, and I've raised many parrots and macaws with a bottle, some of them were very pricy, so knowing what you're doing is crucial (regardless the price of a certain bird..) |
igr8mgkman New user 52 Posts |
When raising any animal from a baby is the best time for bonding, training etc and research on a particular animal is always a wise thing to do!
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