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DekEl Inner circle Creates MindTricks. Has exactly: 1172 Posts |
Most performers hate using stooges. Premeditated stooging, instant stooging, dual reality, and indirectly through preshow. We want our audience to see what is really happening. Why?
If we are really just performers and entertainers, we should feel free to use as many stooges as we like. Sure, it may just feel like a play or an act, but isn't that all we're really trying to do to our audiences? Or is there something more that we want. Do we want individual spectators to truly be amazed? Why do we care about what a few experience, and the rest can only observe? Or is it about making mentalism fun for ourselves, even if we sacrifice some of the perfection that stooges provide? Just some questions I've been asking myself about stooges in general. What do you think?
You can purchase my works at: http://www.GetMindTricks.com
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markthorold Inner circle Shrunken heads atop 1942 Posts |
Whatever it takes to do the job effectively .As Magi we tell lies on a regular basis and don't feel any guilt, why should we feel guilty for the use of a stooge?
Mark
E.O.I
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parmenion Inner circle Switzerland/Zürich 3988 Posts |
Who tell you that?
Where did you find these information ? Which performers?
“I love talking about nothing. It is the only thing I know anything about.”
<BR>Oscar Wilde experimentaliste <br> <BR>Artist pickpocket Professional <BR> <BR>Looking for the best book test in French? send me a PM! |
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DekEl Inner circle Creates MindTricks. Has exactly: 1172 Posts |
@mark That's been my question. I lie constantly about premises, my spectators know I am lying, it's part of the entertainment, the illusion, so I don't feel guilt. So why do we feel strange about a "bigger" lie?
You can purchase my works at: http://www.GetMindTricks.com
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Domino Magic Special user 999 Posts |
I guess it depends on the audiences you're working for. Try it for a corporate audience and by the next day, most in the audience will know what really happened. Everyone knows each other and they will talk. If you do it in a theater setting with strangers, only some will know, not just the people who helped you, but whoever they're with.
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DekEl Inner circle Creates MindTricks. Has exactly: 1172 Posts |
Not necessarily. Imagine for a moment that you did the unthinkable, and ran an entire show with actors, who didn't tell anyone.
If I did that I would feel terribly lame, but the audience would probably enjoy the heck out of it.
You can purchase my works at: http://www.GetMindTricks.com
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Michael Daniels Inner circle Isle of Man 1609 Posts |
The problem with using stooges is that many remarkable effects become stupid and pointless if stooges are suspected by the audience. The more mentalists are tempted to use stooges, the more audiences will believe they are being used. This is why it is important in mentalism to convince the audience that stooges cannot be employed - e.g., by selecting participants by tossing out a frisbee.
Mike |
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Davit Sicseek Inner circle 1818 Posts |
For the same reason some DJs mix and beatmatch music themselves rather than letting a computer take care of it. Artistic integrity.
That isn't to say that there is zero place for the use of stooges and certainly there is a fine line between stooge and confederate. Personally I think that reading the mind of a stooge should never be the "end" - but it may legitimatley be the "means".
Send me the truth: davitsicseek@gmail.com
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Domino Magic Special user 999 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-29 08:56, DekEl wrote: That's fine for a fantasy world, but most are real world workers who don't want to hire a cast to go with him. Also how would that work in a corporate setting? It wouldn't. DekEl, with concepts like that, you should be a consultant for Criss Angel! |
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Todd Robbins V.I.P. New York 2922 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-29 08:56, DekEl wrote: A very, very famous magician did this very thing. It backfired terribly on him. Someone did tell...and told it to the press. |
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Dreadnought Special user Athens, Georgia 836 Posts |
Stooges and confederates? They are just another tool in the tool box. There is a time and place for everything.
Peace
"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..." Scott Would you do anything for the person you love? |
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Todd Robbins V.I.P. New York 2922 Posts |
The flip side of this happens with my show Play Dead. We don't use any stooges, but because of the remarkable things our spectators do onstage, many insist that they are on our payroll. These are often the same people that insist that my glass eating is fake, but my talking to the dead is real.
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Shrubsole Inner circle Kent, England 2455 Posts |
Well the odd stooge in a big show, no problem but I like to think that I have done at least some work in creating the enjoyment. With wall to wall stooges it would become a very boring act for the performer.
Also I like to use people from the audience who can't possibly be stooges for that very reason that they can't possibly be stooges: It's one of Bob Cassidy's logical disconnects lodged firmly in the way of the person trying to work it out. As 'stooges!' is now so overused by lay people for anything that they can't explain, it should be our goal to remove that from the equation in order for us to look good. We may have worked our backsides off doing a 2 hour show only to have someone dismiss all our hard work with one word 'Stooges!'. So we should go out of our way to remove that excuse and they should be left with nothing but appreciating our hard work. Posted: Jun 29, 2011 9:51am ----------------------------------- Quote:
On 2011-06-29 09:39, Todd Robbins wrote: :lol: Spectators, love 'em! Totally unhampered by logical thought!
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
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Jon_Thompson Inner circle Darkest Cheshire 2404 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-29 09:37, Dreadnought wrote: That's exactly my thought. |
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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12938 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-29 09:54, Jon_Thompson wrote: All it can be. |
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*Mark Lewis* V.I.P. 1325 Posts |
Stooges should be used sparingly. Audiences are intelligent animals and they can cotton on to it very quickly. Sometimes the stooge overacts or gives the game away somehow. Or perhaps the trick is just a mite too impossible so it gets figured out easily.
Another danger is that the performer can become a stooge addict and start to rely on them too much to his own detriment. One problem is that over time the stooge will start bragging how they helped you on stage and that doesn't do you any good either. A And of course you have the hassle of arranging the stooge in the first place. The best type of stooge is the impromptu one sometimes known as an "instant stooge". I am not dogmatically saying "don't use stooges". I use them myself on the odd occasion for certain tricks. But I use them sparingly since I know the disadvantages therein. The word does get round if you are not careful so I think their use should be limited. Of course Pickpockets use them all the time as it does make their work easier. And when I do a hypnosis show that is floundering (rarely) I will not hesitate to turn someone into a stooge to get out of trouble. In general terms however, it is a very dangerous modus operandi and should be used intelligently and sparingly. Normally I am of the school of thought that it really doesn't matter what method you use to gain an objective in magic. This is one exception. Use it by all means but use it very, very, very, carefully. |
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Domino Magic Special user 999 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-29 09:49, Shrubsole wrote: With everyone being a stooge, the mentalist is essentially useless. You would have a better show if you brought in a real actor. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
If stooging is a legitimate method, why is it being discussed in a public forum? If you think it doesn't matter, how does that reflect on your attitude toward exposure in general?
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
I liked Curly best...
I've asked to be banned
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Dick Christian Inner circle Northern Virginia (Metro DC) 2619 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-29 09:39, Todd Robbins wrote: Todd, Do you really mean to tell me -- after all the years I've known you -- that you really DO eat glass and you're NOT really talking to the dead? I'm shocked, shocked I say! Dick
Dick Christian
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