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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
http://news.yahoo.com/motorcyclist-crash......840.html
I just cannot get the irony out of my mind. It is tragic though...
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Whoops! That ain't gonna help the cause.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-05 18:56, LobowolfXXX wrote: You think?
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
I get the feeling some of these people are simply doing it for the wrong reasons.
I disagree with forcing people to wear helmets and seat belts, but that doesn't mean I think people shouldn't wear them. Putting your life at risk to protest like this is, imho, just plain dumb.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Dreadnought Special user Athens, Georgia 836 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-05 23:36, gdw wrote: Surprise, surprise.
Peace
"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..." Scott Would you do anything for the person you love? |
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Destiny Inner circle 1429 Posts |
GDW,
Democratic government is what we might call a 'consensus'. It is an impossibility to make everyone happy, all the time - hence the expression - 'you can't please all the people, all of the time.' The best we can hope for is to make the majority happy and hope the minority are not too unhappy (except for some who seem to enjoy unhappiness at a professional level.) You seem to believe your version of anarchy will allow everyone to be happy but if this board is representative at all it means most of us don't want it - we would have to be happy, whether we liked it or not - so your anarchy is only anarchic in name - it's actually a dictatorship. As the vast majority of people support democratic government, you would be reversing the current order and making the majority unhappy so a very small minority (perhaps of one?) could be as happy as a pig in shiitake mushrooms. I suspect even in your anarchic utopia, a consensus on how we could all share the public throroughfares safely would be deemed sensible - but we have that now. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-05 23:36, gdw wrote: +1
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-06 00:51, Destiny wrote: With respect to this issue, though, not only are the people who say, "If you're against abortion, don't have one, but don't stop me from doing it" and "If you're against gay marriage, don't marry someone of the same sex, but don't stop me from doing it" not saying "If you're against riding motorcycles without a helmet, then don't do it, but don't stop me from doing it" but they're, for the most part, the most gung-ho about the laws that prevent the same freedom of choice they push for in other areas.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Destiny Inner circle 1429 Posts |
Lobo,
I think democracy is coming to a consensus* which will mean it is never perfect because the majority are not always correct. I live in a country where there has long been a consensus helmets are necessary for road safety and they are compulsory for both pushbike and motorbike riders. I am old enough to remember the howls of protest when both laws were introduced - same as for compulsory wearing of seat belts and baby seats - however in all cases that quicky subsided when people saw the road toll go down. I usually agree with your points, but not this time - noone is forced to share anyone's bed, but we must all share the roads. *Conditions Apply |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Destiny, yes you are sharing the roads, but what does that have to do with someone ELSE not wearing a helmet?
It does nothing to you while you're on the road. As for anarchy reversing things, not at all, you would still be free to form groups to come to consensus on how YOU live your life, you just can't force that on those who don't want to be part of your group.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-06 01:07, LobowolfXXX wrote: I think you make good points. I still disagree, and admit to being inconsistent here. I'd like to find a logical way to justify my inconsistency, but I'm not sure I can. (Any help here would be appreciated, though I recognize it would totally be an after the fact rationalization ). I suppose though, my feelings are the way they are because it has to do with safety, yours and your passengers. Without such laws it would be doubtful that seat belts would be in cars in a mandatory way at a reasonable price. I also think rat poison in Sugar Smacks boxes should be outlawed, even if it's clearly labeled on the box. So I guess I'm willing to make the logical exception when it involves fatal injury. Again not the most coherent of positions (though not terrible), but this is a a case where my feelings trump my logic and I'm willing to believe my feelings are correct, and work backwards from there. Kind of like a puzzler who "knows" the answer to the problem, but has to work to establish why it's right.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
I have a great idea. If one chooses not to wear a helmet they must obtain and carry on their person an "organ donor card" whenever they are riding. This way everyone should be happy. Lose a life, save a life.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
I'm not as worried about the riders who die as the ones who become vegetables that have to have others take care of them for the rest of their lives. Although either option would suck, I think death would be the lesser suck.
I'd wear a helmet whether it was legal or not.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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Destiny Inner circle 1429 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-06 08:58, landmark wrote: You've sort of explained something I also feel. GDW: I should explain (and perhaps I should have gone into more detail with my 'Conditions Apply*') here in Australia it does affect the rest of us because here, with bipartisan support, the accident victim will be attended by government funded ambulance and paramedics, doctors and nurses, he/she will be treated in a government funded hospital and receive government funded rehabilitation. All this may seem terrible to some but remember - this is how we wish our country run - there is not a single member of the Australian Parliament who argues against this - be they a member of the conservative parties, the left, the minor parties or the independents. Also every accident contributes to increased insurance premiums. Most importantly for me, if some motorcyclist ends up dead with his head through my windscreen, I'd be happier if the head were more or less intact. (The last sentence is a joke - black humour - not intended seriously etc etc) |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Destiny -
I seem to disagree with you infrequently enough that I'm willing to try it on for size once in a while. Landmark, I think you you put your finger on an important and relevant difference; I think the situations, though they are similar, are also dissimilar enough that I don't think it's a matter of glaring inconsistency. As a general rule, though, with respect to Destiny's broader point, I will say that the consensus framework is the best we can do where it's an all-or-none proposition,but in cases where individuals can choose different options without directly interfering with each other, then we can often do better than consensus. Again, e.g., we have a general consensus against gay marriage in the USA (for now, anyway). I appreciate that you may not think that helmet laws are an exception to the general rule. As long-time motorcycle rider (off-road), I would add that while helmets make accidents more survivable, my opinion is that they probably also make them somewhat more likely, due to a false sense of security, reduced peripheral vision, and reduced hearing (depending on helmet style). I am also not insensitive to the dangers involved; I have a cousin who was very seriously injured in a motorcycle accident. Of course, I think it's a net loss to go helmetless if it makes an accident 1% less likely and 300% more serious, and if I were to ride a street bike, I would wear one, but ultimately, IMO, that's a decision that should be left to the riders themselves, who are generally experienced and licensed, and not a bunch of no-motorcycle-ridin', chauffeured, deficit-creatin', 9%-approval-rating-havin' Congresso-hacks.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Destiny-
With special respect to healthcare, be very, very careful. Lots of things can be outlawed in the name of reducing healthcare costs. Check your kitchen.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
That's why you should never cook without an apron.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Today, their helmets...tomorrow your cheeseburgers.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Kevin Ridgeway V.I.P. Indianapolis, IN & Phoenix, AZ 1832 Posts |
My wife and I both ride. We enjoy riding aggressively and visit Deal's Gap or The Dragon(318 curves in 11 miles) several times a year. We almost always wear helmets and generally believe in the term ATGATT, All The Gear All The Time.
There are a few times when it is nice to go for a leisurely ride with no helmet. It is nice to have that right even though we personally believe in helmet use. I'm not sure the government's job is to protect us from ourselves. The main question is where does it stop, once it starts? In automobile accidents the biggest cause of death is head injuries. Does that mean we should start requiring drivers & passengers in cars to wear helmets?
Living Illusions
Ridgeway & Johnson Entertainment Inc Kevin Ridgeway & Kristen Johnson aka Lady Houdini The World's Premier Female Escape Artist www.LadyHoudini.com www.livingillusions.com |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-06 10:54, LobowolfXXX wrote: Not my cheezburgerz!!!
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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