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Diasgemini Regular user Paris & Portugal 101 Posts |
Magic is Magic, is not just a trick.
The magicians don't need to FOOL the public, the make them wonder, dream, time travel, local travel. We are not charlatans we are builders of fantasy. Why do Penn and Teller need to expose magic that way? ( Pen and Teller Fools us ) Why change the public way of looking at magic? Instead of creating magic they are destroying it. They need to show to the public that the know how a magic routine works? Yes, it will be interesting as show if the show was only for magicians. Public television is not a magic conference. What do you people think of that? Magic is MAGIC or is just a trick? |
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Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2607 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-06 12:46, Diasgemini wrote: For the money and public exposure. What other reason would they have?
Ray Pierce
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markmiller Special user 731 Posts |
I like what Luis de Matos - an excellent magician, one of the world's great magic promoters, and tv pro from way back - had to say about "Fool Us" in his recent Q&A here at the Café. "...I like the format. Any magic show is good if it contributes to the audience’s understanding of magic. You will only know that something is good if you also know why something is bad. Penn & Teller’s commentary on the performances do that and, despite the format, they are going out of their way in the edited version of the show not to undermine the performers who are featured. For many it is providing the best show-reel footage and advertising they have ever had.
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
I think the Show is just there to make more money and create the illusion of fame/infamy for Penn and Teller.
But there are three other threads on this topic already. Look them up Diasgemini.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Olympic Adam Inner circle 1259 Posts |
They are just bringing people who didn't fool them back until they do actually fool them now...
tells me that it's entirely fair as a playing field...
Protection for mind readers and mentalists: http://tricksofthemind.com
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-09 16:19, Olympic Adam wrote: Wow, really? Who's the real fool here? Sigh...
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Ray Chelt Special user Changing the world with my 988 Posts |
But do some of these people deserve to come back.
I thought the act that won tonight was a little boring and I couldn't see it in Vegas. It got through purely because the mechanics fooled P & T who came up with he stupidest answer ever. This show started out wonderfully, I didn't have concerns about the exposure because the acts themselves were entertaining. Now we are starting to see the return of acts that weren't entertaining who are forcing themselves through with "the secret" rather than the excitement. Feels like its gone off the rails. |
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Olympic Adam Inner circle 1259 Posts |
Exactly as above, really disappointing. I fail to see the point of the effect, briefcase for gloves? darts? surely it would be better to have the prediction in the briefcase you haven't touched, mentioning the briefcase at all made me think of something immediately more impressive.
Not sure if you saw but it was for sale just as the show ended (i think just before it was on the emails went out about it spoiling the result). Come back for another chance, get through on a silly answer and have the product for sale immediately. Many people would love one chance, never mind two because you messed the first one up. Such a difference in the amount of scrutiny the performers are subjected to. I'm turned off something that I thought I would really enjoy.
Protection for mind readers and mentalists: http://tricksofthemind.com
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Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2607 Posts |
The irony of the show is that the goal is "Fool P&T, get to perform in Vegas". The reality is that you don't really have to be good to fool them... just different, that's all. It doesn't necessarily take talent, you just have to luck into a method they don't already know.
Now that being said, most of the people that cast on the show are relatively good but the secret to fooling magicians is a specific goal skill. Many people that make their living lecturing and selling to magicians have that as their goal. You just have to do something that magicians recognize but with a different method than they are use to. They are sometimes the easiest to fool. Now P&T... well Teller at least has a fairly sophisticated magic background and Penn has been in the business for years so less is going to fool them. Still... just do a traditional effect with a very different method and you're on the way. Most of the ones that have fooled the have fit into that category.
Ray Pierce
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Olympic Adam Inner circle 1259 Posts |
You speak as though we might get on the show, and while your advice is correct, it seems as thought the next couple of series will just be their failed pals coming back to try again...
Protection for mind readers and mentalists: http://tricksofthemind.com
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Richard L. New user 43 Posts |
Because I'm in the US, I don't know about this example you are talking about because obviously this episode is not on YouTube yet, but I think that what you are talking about works the other way around too. Sometimes I think there are acts that really are very entertaining and I think deserve a place in Vegas, but because P and T can figure out and expose the trick, they don't get through. Also, P and T kind of ruin the great entertainment provided by these acts by exposing them. Two examples of this happening that come to mind and Mark Shortland and John Van Der Put as Piff the Magic Dragon. I found both of these performances, especially the latter, very entertaining, but when what they did was exposed, it kind of ruined what I had just seen.
I do understand those who say that just having the magic out there is a good thing, and in some ways I agree with this, but when I see great, entertaining acts exposed, it really makes me think: "How good can this be for magic if a laymen sees a great entertaining routine and they're thinking: 'Wow, I never thought magic could be this entertaining!' only to have this experience brought back to it just being about the trick." Just my thoughts, I'd love to hear some other opinions. MagicR |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-09 19:48, Ray Pierce wrote: Mr. Mindbender wrote this... "Penn & Teller did a highly entreating confabulation routine back when they were performing at a small theater in Hell's Kitchen in NYC -- in the 1980's, before they "made it big", back when I found them novel and entertaining. If I'm not mistaken, Max Maven consulted with them on the effect. It was 10x more entertainig than what I just saw, and obviously P&T knew exactly how this was done. Why they chose to be "fooled" is beyond me." Money and fame. That's why they do it.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Olympic Adam Inner circle 1259 Posts |
Their show happens wether they get fooled or not, why do they let people come back and do it again after not fooling them. They have put enough through to have a decent show over there already.
Protection for mind readers and mentalists: http://tricksofthemind.com
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Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2607 Posts |
They cast this show just like they cast America's Got Talent or American Idol. They cast extremes. On AI and AGT, the really good and the really bad acts make it on, the simply mediocre ones never do. They want it to be a clear choice for the audience. Johnny Thompson and one other guy (whom I forgot) know there are really deceptive acts and those that wouldn't fool any normal magician. They "cast" and place the people on the show with a great idea of the ones that will fool them and the ones that won't. Let's face it... it's not an open call where just anyone can get on the program, these people are very carefully selected.
Ray Pierce
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markmiller Special user 731 Posts |
I might be wrong, but I get the impression that this show is not really created by P & T and that they are more hired hands than some of their past series that are their own creations. Good host, Jonathan Ross, and some good magicians, but what a cruise for P & T. It kinda looks like they mostly just show up. What a great gig, we should all be so lucky.
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Ray Chelt Special user Changing the world with my 988 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-09 19:56, magicr wrote: Because Mark and Piff were so good I'm not sure the limted exposure hurt them. On the other hand, for entertainment value these two defintely deserved a gig in Vegas Maybe they let Richard Bellas through because of pressure because of their perceived bias against mentalists. I'm just surprised that their answer for Bellas trick didn't make any mention of where the heck the podium came from for him to rest the briefcase on in the final phase. A stage hand ? ( And they wouldn't pick up on that ? !!) |
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Olympic Adam Inner circle 1259 Posts |
They let the 15 year old go to Vegas too despite not fooling them...
there are some further discussions on this elsewhere here also.
Protection for mind readers and mentalists: http://tricksofthemind.com
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Ross W Inner circle UK 1779 Posts |
C'mon people, lighten up. It's a telly show, showing magic! Hooray!
There's not much exposure, really. In fact, the only person I can imagine being angered by the exposure is Max Somerset whose excellent and original "watch smash" was performed by Mark Shortland (without Max's permission) and had the very devious method fairly unambiguously revealed. This has been the cornerstone of Max's act for years and if I were him I'd be livid. |
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Olympic Adam Inner circle 1259 Posts |
I'd feel this way about any show taking people for a ride in this way though.
I watched this week and it was a bit better but P&T didn't even seem happy at the end
Protection for mind readers and mentalists: http://tricksofthemind.com
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
Teller tweeted on July 17th:
"I love that acts win on 'Fool Us,' even when they don't fool us. Piff the Magic Dragon has signed with a TV agent and is pitching a sitcom."
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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