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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Finger/stage manipulation » » Card manipulation (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Neil
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I'm trying to learn some card manipulation. I'm limiting myself to a back palm production, back-to-front showing hand empty (the "pivot" move I believe) and multiple production of about 4 cards at present as they fit in with what I want to do. I've not got much specific study material on manipulation and am going mostly on the manipulation section in Buckley's Card Control - which isn't the most detailed work as some of you will know.

The front to back palm is going well but when I bring it back to the front I'm finding the card is too far away from the base of the hand so that when I straighten the inner fingers (2nd & 3rd) and then the outer (1st & 4th) the card is poking out the end of my fingers a fair old way. This method is described in Buckley as being "without use of the thumb" so I'm wondering if the standard method DOES use the thumb to pull the card back - can anyone give me a pointer? For instance, the obvious move of grabbing the end of the card with the crook of my thumb has occured to me - is that a wise move?

I get the impression Buckley was almost superhuman in his abilities and can't really be bothered to explain details to mere mortals!

Thanks

N
magic4u02
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This is just a preference thing, but I do indeed use my thumb to momemtarily hold the card before I straighten the fingers out. This helps hold the car in place for a split second and prevents the card from getting out of alignment. If performed in a nice fluid movement, the audience never sees the thumb go out of view and it never becomes a visual problem. I would give it a try and see what works best for you. I would also recommend the McBride series on card manipulation. He goes over this in detail. Hope this information is of help to you.
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augur
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Greetings,

You are correct, the move is called the Pivot.
I prefer not to use the thumb at all. I've seen people use the thumb and I think that if done right, the move looks better without the thumb.
I believe the best way to learn this move is from the Art Of Card Manipulation by Jeff McBride volume 1. But if you are really into card manipulation my advice is get the set (3 DVDs) as most magic dealers offer a discount if you buy the set and it'll save you a few bucks, and there's some wonderfull material in those DVDs.
That being said, the move does take time and practice and a lot more practice to make it smooth and fluid, but keep at it and it'll come to you. Smile
-The Scot-
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You'll find using the thumb helps keep the cards aligned if you are pivoting with more than one card. It also prevents the middle and ring finger from sliding the back card out when performing the pivot (those who have experienced the problem will know what I am on about - if not grab a few cards and try and visualise it Smile)

Kevin
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uggh, I need the 2nd volume of AoCM....A friend gave me the third...and it pretty much relies on the second....
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magic4u02
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Kevin:
Yes indeed. I hear you brother. I remember spending many hours wondering why my cards went flying across the floor when I was doing the pivot. I now use my thumb during this move but the key for me is to still make it smooth and flowing of a movement. if you do, the thumb goes out of view for a mili-second if that.
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-The Scot-
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Why make it hard for yourself if the pivot looks just as good with the aid of the thumb.

Manipulation is hard enough as it is, never mind ranting about using the thumb to grip some cards.

Keep up the good work,

Kevin
magic4u02
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In my own mind, it is all about the quality of entertainment you are giving to your audience during any performance. I do not think using your thumb in a pivot move attracts that much attention from the audience. I think they honestly never even see it. With this in mind, why indeed make it harder on yourself then it needs to be. The more important thing is to do it in a fluid style and have the movement be smooth. Of course do not flash the card as well.
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-The Scot-
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Too true!

If it is done fluently, the audience has no reason to suspect a stock of cards behind your hand anyway—the thumb only makes life easier.

Happy pivoting Smile

Kevin
magic4u02
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It is also nice to point out that the pivot is a great way to get the cards back into alignment if they should start getting into disaray.

I simply do a pivot move with the stock, and the cards are once again aligned well in the back palm position. Give it a try and I think you will see what I mean.
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-The Scot-
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I couldn't understand what you meant at first, but I just tried it there and I see what you mean.

Good tip, Kyle!

Kevin
magic4u02
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Kevin:

I am glad it worked for you. It works well because as you perform the pivot, the cards are all brought in contact with the fleshy part of the thumb. Because it is hitting this area, it allows the cards to be pushed in line with the thumb muscle. This in turn straightens the cards up and brings them into alignment. It works quite well. Glad it worked for you.
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-The Scot-
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Smile
magic4u02
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What other methods do you all have for straightening out cards that are in a back palm position? I am curious to see any other techniques. The pivot works well for me.
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-The Scot-
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Maybe you should start a new topic on this, Kyle.

I have found producing the whole stock (maybe 13 max) as one card gives you an excellent opportunity to square up the cards. You can then peel one off the face and re backpalm the rest of the stock.

Enjoy!

Kevin
magic4u02
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Kevin:

Good advice. I will make this into a new post.
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Robert P.
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Threads like this is why I love this place. Good advice throughout.
maylor
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I straighten them back out by doing a production where the cards are brought from the back palm and produced between the thumb and middle finger as one stock. The top card can then be peeled off with the perfect production and the rest back palmed again. If you know what I mean.

It's on the McBride series if you don't! Smile
Eddy
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When the cards are getting a little messy you can always transfer them to front palm of the oposite hand and then go into the single production, this mixes it up a little too. Also whilst on the subject of the pivot, does anyone,like me, have trouble pivoting more than on ecard to front palm? I usually do the pivot once, on the last card to be produced, because that's all I can manage. My problem lies in the fact that when I have to straighten my second an middle fingers out to hold the cards in front palm, they slide along the cards and push them out, spreading them as they go. Hop you understand what I mean, and help would be appreciated. Smile Smile Smile
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AlexWong
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Hi, I finally decided to start on the pivot move too, I'm wondering if I can get some help...

Learning from McBrides DVD, When I try to bring it from back palm to front, the card sticks too far out for my 2nd and 3rd finger to push back.

Is it the positioning of the cards in my hands? I tried to move the ends of the cards closer to the tips of my fingers, which makes it somewhat better, but then the cards appear much more obvious.
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