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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The spooky, the mysterious...the bizarre! » » The Fallen by Jim Critchlow (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Sandstar
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My goodness, such discussions at the Café give the concept of "tempest in a teapot" an infinitely more expansive meaning. Will The Fallen take away one ounce of business from Luna? I don't believe it. Luna is now established as one of the greatest "book tests" ever created. I have all three and will never stop using them or recommending them. That said, I have ordered The Fallen. As a combat veteran from Vietnam I think it could be a wonderful and very serious addition to my program. There is very little in mentalism that offers such emotional involvement. When you have only a handful of such effects, why attack a new one even before it is released?
DrTodd
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On 2011-10-27 15:06, Sandstar wrote:
My goodness, such discussions at the Café give the concept of "tempest in a teapot" an infinitely more expansive meaning. Will The Fallen take away one ounce of business from Luna? I don't believe it. Luna is now established as one of the greatest "book tests" ever created. I have all three and will never stop using them or recommending them. That said, I have ordered The Fallen. As a combat veteran from Vietnam I think it could be a wonderful and very serious addition to my program. There is very little in mentalism that offers such emotional involvement. When you have only a handful of such effects, why attack a new one even before it is released?


Thanks very much Sandstar. I think you misinterpret my parallel analysis as an attack. It is not. Due credit is in the making and gentlemanly conversations have been had Smile

Best wishes

Dr Todd
Peter Nardi
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Hi Guys,

I have spoken to Jim and since I have never seen Luna I will trust his word that the methods are different. What you see in the demo is how it plays every time (with different outcomes) there is no fishing at all. From the moment the items are chosen you know a number of things. Name, DOB,Service Number, Missing In action/Killed in action, nationality, rank, regiment, etc etc

Jims clever method means you can achieve all of this with minimal memory work.

Thank you to everyone who has already pre-ordered The Fallen. I know you will be very happy with your purchase.

Best Regards

Peter
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As the guy who rather "wrote the book" on LUNA (the performance manual), I feel that I should weigh in at last.

I don't see a problem here. The Fallen has a different 'in' (for better or worse according to your personal tastes) and the revelations are frankly more complete than Luna allows. There is no LUNA-like ability to 'see' a card beside the chosen card--there are no LUNA-style 'wild card' opportunities with The Fallen. No lunatic asylum either. Chalk and Cheese, I say--at least from the spec's vantage (and the spec's is the only perspective that matters in the end, gentlemen).

The Fallen appears to require props, but aren't they lovely props? Aren't they logical? Don't they in point of fact add to the overall effect and allow for some superior storytelling? (note to Jim, for psychometry, I would hold the articles myself rather than have the spec hold them as well as the cards, and then I would 'feel the message' coming from the props. More effective.)

I say welcome The Fallen, and may many audiences find entertainment, mystery, and pleasure around the tables upon which it is performed.

Respect.
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Quote:
On 2011-10-27 16:56, Peter Nardi wrote:
Hi Guys,

I have spoken to Jim and since I have never seen Luna I will trust his word that the methods are different. What you see in the demo is how it plays every time (with different outcomes) there is no fishing at all. From the moment the items are chosen you know a number of things. Name, DOB,Service Number, Missing In action/Killed in action, nationality, rank, regiment, etc etc

Jims clever method means you can achieve all of this with minimal memory work.

Thank you to everyone who has already pre-ordered The Fallen. I know you will be very happy with your purchase.

Best Regards

Peter


Hang on... A few posts ago I was told you don't need the spectator to pick up the items to get this to work. But now Peter is saying you do. I'm confused. Are the items on the table an integral part of the method, as I suspected from the beginning and one of the things I dislike about the effect, or not?

I was just about to pre-order this but checked back here first. I'm glad I did.

Could someone please pm me to clear this up. Many thanks Smile
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Lucien Astor
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If the items are integral to the methodology, then the inclusion of more, albeit unnecessary, items would effectively throw people off the trail, and perhaps add more layers to the narrative and the deceit.
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I agree Lucien (awesome avatar by the way). I would imagine the inclusion and selection of the objects is a cue to the performer. But, if the story is to be believed, there should be more than a few objects to choose from. We're talking 60 soldiers. Right now, I alone am carrying 2,167 objects in my pockets. Imagine what a soldier needs to have.

Alright, I exaggerated a bit.
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Sandstar
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As an old soldier let me say that soldiers carry a lot of the same things. For instance, in my war everybody carried a P38. It isn't impossible to imagine getting together a small collection of things that many men would have owned.
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On 2011-10-27 22:24, Sandstar wrote:
As an old soldier let me say that soldiers carry a lot of the same things. For instance, in my war everybody carried a P38.

Is that a Walther P38?
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pslaughter
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OK, so I've been thinking about this effect for most of the day. Like I said before, I want to like this effect. I still don't like it the way it is presented in the video for the reasons I've already stated. However I have some ideas that might make it better in my eyes. Not sure if they would work. So here are some of the ideas I've come up with...

The thing I don't like is the photos just wreaks of being a deck of cards. How about instead of the cards coming out of the box, they were contained in a photo album of sorts. An old album with black pages. On the pages of the album could be listed some of the additional info instead of these reading like some weird WWI trading cards. There could also be other pressed items on the pages as well. Somehow on the page would have to be the items that were picked up or maybe just outlines/silhouettes of where the items should be... The album could be of a regiment or battalion or some other kind of organized group that went or was lost on some particularly strange mission.

Something also bothered me about the way the Psychometry angle was handled. It seemed too easy and straight forward. There was no build to the climax. Once you reveal the first bit of information, that's it. Why wouldn't you be able to come up with all the rest? In my mind this should be about finding and identifying the owner of these items from the vibrations emanating from them. It seems to me the photo album from above should be sitting there on the table closed initially after it has been described. Then the spectator hands the performer the requisite number of items necessary for the effect. From here the performer begins to get a sense of the soldier. As the impressions get stronger the spectator is directed to open the book and is directed to a certain page with a certain picture.

To me the routine should build to the climax of revealing the dead soldier's name. Perhaps the photos would be held in the album by those little black angles. The spectator could remove the picture, and then the name of the soldier would be printed on the back of the photo. Of course you'd have to reprint all of the "photos" but that wouldn't be such a big deal. You'd also have to age everything (for me this would be a much bigger deal)

There are still a bunch of details to work out, but these are just some of my thoughts.

I'd be interested in hearing some of your ideas as well.
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When you release a period piece for sale, Alakazam may as well just release it as a DVD with instructions as to making the props. I had to redo White Star. Concept, brillant, but the supply of photo's was terrible. This is looking the same. The size of the photo's doesn't bother me but the age look does. And if info is printed on the back as in White Star, well that just about ruins the authanticity. I could never figure out why they didn't hand write on the back before sending to the printers. Coming in a playing card box isn't a problem, as previously said just put them in something else. I'll be buying but no doubt will have to redo the set to be able to make it play well, unfortunately
docsteve
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On 2011-10-27 18:25, Lucien Astor wrote:
If the items are integral to the methodology, then the inclusion of more, albeit unnecessary, items would effectively throw people off the trail, and perhaps add more layers to the narrative and the deceit.


Absolutely correct! Hence the inclusion of several of my own authentic items from the trenches.

Secondly, I do not say the photos are period - they are items sold with a WW1 book - similar to baseball cards in the US? - which have the soldiers details; however if you can age the photos and transcribe the information then I think that would be nice too.

The routine I have used is to get the spectator to select the soldier they feel a connection with after looking at all the photos and information. In order to connect they select the items that are listed in his personal effects (in actual fact you don't need to know which items these are. The one's left behind however...)
Now at this stage, everything is put away, and the trick is over.
It is only now that the performance begins...

If you are doing a stage/parlour performance the items could be done as very fair and logical pre-show work; you could later state on stage "You never wrote anything down" or "I never held the photos" if you're performing at your magic club ;-)

During performance I ask the spectator to mentally ask the soldier (who is standing right in front of him!) questions; I then repeat what I've heard 'clair-aurally' and write down the answers on a large pad. The climax is when the name & unit number is asked for: turns out the same name is within a small pillbox within a locked box... This is spirit that in fact I have been working with over the last few weeks, trying to make contact and accept a message. it seems the spectator's apparent free choice may have been invisibly influenced by the strong spirit desperate to 'get through'.

Note: the spectator takes the credit for summoning and questioning the spirit; I am merely transcribing the answers using my underdeveloped clair-audience skills that I'm currently 'developing'...
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Peter Nardi
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Roslyn

There are two methods explained. One using the props and one with out the props.

Regards

Peter
Sandstar
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To Rick,

No the P38 that we all carried wasn't a pistol. It was a can opener.
Roth
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On 2011-10-28 15:26, Sandstar wrote:
To Rick,

No the P38 that we all carried wasn't a pistol. It was a can opener.

I didn't know Walther made can openers too. Good to know Smile
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Wizard of Oz
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This is good stuff guys. Enough to convince me into checking this out. I love the photo album idea...you can add whatever you'd like, and pass the modern appearance off as a printout from a photo found on the internet. And, docsteve, your input is as brilliant as usual (gave me the shivers as a matter of fact).

Rick...your avatar continues to pop up while I write and spook me. I love it.
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illusion123
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I really like these story line type of effects. Although I like the effect I cannot see this fitting in at majority of functions close up performers work at.From my experience the effects need to be quick and straight forward, not long and drawn out. Can anyone tell me in what type of environment this would work in. I have White Star which is also good but have only performed it to family and friends never at a paid booking.
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Wherever you'd perform White Star, I think The Fallen would work.

I can't see it being presented in a walkabout set either. It needs to be done with focus. I do small paranormal evenings with effects like this. I think The Fallen would work in perfectly here.

My concern is that, currently, the star of these small events (limited to 12 or so) is Luna. I think The Fallen may be too similar in effect to Luna...and that the same-ness of the two would keep me from presenting it.

THEN I started thinking that it's not necessary to present ALL the information The Fallen makes possible. Perhaps the revelation of one or two components might keep it different enough to be presentable...once the "magic trick" look of the prop is taken into account and dealt with...and there is the overlay of WW1 and the operation of Colney Hatch as an asylum. Hopefully I can think of a way to link the two so they compliment each other instead of duplicating each other.

I'm developing a pendulum for The Fallen that, hopefully, will serve to increase the presentational disconnect with Luna.

Either way, it seems to me that The Fallen will have to be presented with great respect and care. Bottom line: the Fallen is either going to be very wonderful...or.........

Time will tell.

But there's no way I am messing with Luna's position or presentation in my show.

David
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TonyMc
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Happy New Year everyone. Jim and I have set up page for The Fallen on Facebook. Why not check it out.

Tony
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