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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
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On 2011-07-17 18:26, Shrubsole wrote: *bites tongue* you write a lot like damien jennings/mr. goat y'know... as for the show, I understand that alakazam wish to make money and get people into magic...however, what I don't understand is that after seeing the show, people immediately want to buy the same effects/presentations that appeared on the show...makes me feel a little sad...
I've asked to be banned
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Lost in Thought Veteran user 343 Posts |
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On 2011-07-17 18:33, IAIN wrote: Sad, but normal. It's been that way forever, of course. Wasn't everyone doing "Grandfather tricks" after that David Copperfield routine? In fact, if you put any credence in Guy Jarrett's opinions, outspoken chap that he was, Burling Hull made much of his business by selling versions of tricks that were currently popular on the stage, sometimes with hilariously bad methods. |
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Shrubsole Inner circle Kent, England 2455 Posts |
Then again some bands just play covers of other people's song as they already popular and they don't need to use any imagination in writing their own stuff.
Some people just do not have good imaginations and just see a trick and liked it enough to buy it and so do it exactly how it was done when they liked it. That is why it's always good to learn the building blocks rather than a complete routine. That way you can build your own routine or at least take someone else's trick and know how you can modify it and do it differently. I've even seem young magicians calling themselves a variation on another famous performer's name. That shows a complete lack of imagination. And sad aping of someone else. Posted: Jul 17, 2011 8:01pm "damien jennings"? Google suggests that he is a magician from East Sussex. I'm in Kent the next county eastward. "mr. goat" Google wasn't so helpful here, but this is the best I could come up with: http://i.imgur.com/zAuer.jpg
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
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Paul Shirley Inner circle Melbourne, Australia 1206 Posts |
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On 2011-07-17 19:55, Shrubsole wrote: Then again... other muso's play covers as a day job to fund the albums they are writing and recording. There are also cover muso's that write songs for other people, songs that wouldn't necessarily suit them as artists. The charts are FULL of 18 year olds singing hit songs written by cover band musicians. Playing covers is by no means an indication that the musician lacks imagination or creativity..... the same way that performing an effect created by someone else does not necessarily mean that you don't have what it takes to come up with your own stuff. Top T.V magicians... and their leagues of highly paid 'Creative Advisors' are proof of that. |
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saysold1 Eternal Order Recovering Cafe addict with only 10794 Posts |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKrlrOizZVE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N78YnarbVEA&NR=1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiszH6nJeVI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLktK6NGsZI&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=223lD19qSzk&NR=1
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of aerospace level quality, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
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dusty Veteran user 352 Posts |
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Having said all of that, I don't know why they keep cutting for Mic's when they are not needed? Other TV shows don't need them, they have a 'boom' mic that could have been used to pick up what the woman in the audience said. Also a hand-held mic held by the magician going from table to table would have cut out the need to have all the men miced up as well. (They only had the one small talking part each) The lady was not mic'd up,they did use a boom mic! She was not a stooge so why did Nic pick her? Lets just say it had nothing to do with the trick, just time and logistics. In most mentalism routines where a tossed ball is used it is to pick someone at random to come on stage, they don't need anything other than a floor camera to locate them and follow them down to the stage. In this case they needed a camera dedicated to one area so they simply speficy an area to the performer to work within so that they have the location covered. One less thing to bother about, why because it did not matter to Nic. Nic's routine was particularly long so to add a tossed ball element just adds to the time.
Regards,
Dusty aka Max Gordon. "Always give 100%, Unless you're a blood donor!" Exclusive publications available from: www.solutions.yolasite.com |
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Sean Giles Inner circle Cambridge/ UK 3517 Posts |
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On 2011-07-17 20:01, Shrubsole wrote: Great. At least we know what you look like now |
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Martin.Lester Inner circle 1014 Posts |
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On 2011-07-17 14:42, Klangster1971 wrote: I assume you was not one of the Mystery Persons who attened the recording and was locked in the studio for 7 Hours ! LOL |
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Ken Dyne Inner circle UK 2268 Posts |
I agree with Dusty here - it was pure TV-making logistics. They had to get a camera right on the lady so they said 'pick someone from around this area of the audience so we can get a good shot'.
They're making Saturday night TV and so the production team will want to control as many elements as possible so that they can do their bit...and make a good looking show. Once again, people with little experience criticising a method that they do now know. Happy helping - K
MR GOLDEN BALLS 2.0: https://mentalunderground.com/product/mr-golden-balls-2-0/" target="_blank"> https://mentalunderground.com/product/passed-out-deck/
BAIRN: Named 'Best Mentalism Product Of 2014 by Marketplace of the Mind is my collection of more than 40 mentalism routines in a beautiful paperback book: http://www.mentalunderground.com/product/bairn |
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johnnyl New user 57 Posts |
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On 2011-07-18 05:17, Ken Dyne wrote: I don't think its so much that. I think that a lot of the comments are just suggestions that the performance could have been modified to overtly rule out things like the stooges. Also, the lack of experience you refer to can be a good thing too because these people are more likely to view it and question it like a lay person would. |
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Sean Giles Inner circle Cambridge/ UK 3517 Posts |
You see this sort of disbelief all the time on YouTube comments when people can't guess the method. I've seen an ambitious card routine (on YouTube) with people swearing blind that the video has been edited and spliced and that's how the card jumped to the top. They even name the exact second in the footage where the edit supposedly happened!
I think with mentalism it's too easy to shout p_____w or stooge when we can't figure the method out. In this instance I'm certain that neither would even be allowed. If it was, fooling them would be far too easy. |
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Shrubsole Inner circle Kent, England 2455 Posts |
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On 2011-07-18 05:17, Ken Dyne wrote: Yes indeed people always seem to forget that with programmes like this and the X Factor they are there to make a TV show and NOTHING comes above that. Without that, there wouldn't be a show at all! So if thing do have to be stopped for whatever technical reason or restrictions made due to making the TV programme making easier, then they are done. It's not even questioned as that is what they are all there to do. All this dream world that they all have to do things a certain way and be fair at all times is a delusion that the viewing public bring to the show. As long as they stick to the terms and conditions of the show (which no one reads or understands) and any broadcasting laws, they are free to do as they please to make the show how they want to.
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
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Thomas Cooper Special user 935 Posts |
Ken Dyne tells me that no stooging or pre-show was involved and I believe him... though I still maintain that if Bich can perform a routine using randomly selected people then Einhorn should have here. The line about picking someone at random, and then doing the exact opposite really did not help Nick in my opinion.
I have a horrible feeling this is one of those routines where if you are a spectator used on stage then you can work out the routine. If that's the case I will feel very disappointed inside, in much the same way I did with the Bookless Book Test. However it does depend on the degree of how things are from the spectators point of view.
I call myself "Thomas Cooper" here because this stops the magic café appearing when people google my stage name.
Does anyone else find the term "Special User" to be a bit condescending? |
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Lior Inner circle 1961 Posts |
Thomas
I hope you will start doing shows as soon as you can It will help you a lot (and it will help the forum as wel) I have many bad things to say about you and about 95% of your posts. I hold my self You bettervtake all your energy and try to go to a good direction. Use it for youself and don't waste it on posts here in the Café Lior
The Lior Touch
https://1amagic.com/ PEA Dave Lederman Award 2009 PEA Dunninger Award 2001 Life Time Achivmeant IUPA 2016 |
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johnnyl New user 57 Posts |
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On 2011-07-18 06:05, seangiles wrote: But do the public know that? If what everyone is saying here is true, and that stooges arent allowed on the show then that routine was impressive. However if the public don't know that stooges arent allowed, then they could think that this was the possible method thus de-valuing it (IMO). This could easily have been solved by either the show declaring that stooges arent used or randomisation / illusion of randomisation by the performer. |
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Shrubsole Inner circle Kent, England 2455 Posts |
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On 2011-07-18 07:03, Thomas Cooper wrote: Point 1 on your first paragraph: Bich's routine was far shorter (So remember it's a TV show rules again) By longer and shorter I in no way mean better, greater or worse and less. Bich's routine without the audience selection bit was: several cuts and then spread. Einhorn#s routine without audience selection bit was: move 3 meals to 3 tables; get 3 men on stage; envelope swapping part; table selection part and ending with 3 reveals. - That's a lot and would have been enormous had they stuck a 'random audience member selection' part onto that as well. Point 2 on you second paragraph: "I have a horrible feeling this is one of those routines where if you are a spectator used on stage then you can work out the routine." - Why do you get a horrible feeling if it's DR? Whilst DR is not for everyone, (Me included) that doesn't mean no one else should use it to their full advantage if they want. It does seem that you are interested in doing this and "Bookless Book Test" but when you found out they used DR or something else you don't like doing, you were disappointed as it denied you doing them. What you need to do therefore is take what you want to achieve; this routine, and work out a way to do it that suits you rather than be disappointed that someone else's trick doesn't suit you. I have done this many times in the past: I have found a routine that I like, but there is just something in the workings or performance that just isn't me. So I work out another way to achieve the same goal. - This can often fire up the old imagination juices and before long you have something completely different in every way from the original starting point and of course it suits you as you would never put in something that didn't.
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
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dusty Veteran user 352 Posts |
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On 2011-07-18 07:03, Thomas Cooper wrote: Once again Thomas you missed my point about time, Bich did not have someone in the audience in play for more than 5 seconds. They each made a selection and the show moved on. The audience and P & T would have known that Nic was restricted to a general area to save time and camera re-alignment. You really need to get more actual stage performance experience under your belt or better still get to a TV studio and see what really goes on. The show schedule is far more important to the director than the performer's needs. In post production they will cut and drop anything that takes them over time. Nic needed to have someone in play for the duration of the routine so by agreeing to stay within the floor managers designated area, he fulfilled his part of the deal; keeping the maximum involvement to a minimum time. Once again Thomas stop seeing this a performance issue and consider it from the restrictions placed on Nic by a TV show production standpoint. Just one more point, you wrote "did not help Nic in my opinion" the problem here is that your opinion does not count, you were not in the audience or a member of the general viewing public. Theirs is the only opinion that matters. As magicians/ mentalists we view a performance differently from mere muggles.
Regards,
Dusty aka Max Gordon. "Always give 100%, Unless you're a blood donor!" Exclusive publications available from: www.solutions.yolasite.com |
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Mesaboogie Special user 804 Posts |
If Nick is a member of this forum he'll be dumbfounded at the direction this thread has taken. I really think it's time to move on...
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Paul Shirley Inner circle Melbourne, Australia 1206 Posts |
I love Penns re-capping of Nics routine. Great fun.
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Thomas Cooper Special user 935 Posts |
All I am saying is that my granny (a non-magician if ever there was one) asked me if the girl was in on it, and I said she was not. So yes, the viewing audience did suspect that.
IF it were me and I had to choose a particular person, I would have asked Penn to pick them out of the audience instead of myself, and I would have made it clear that this was purely so we could get them mic'ed up. As it was Nick's routine was brought down from near perfect to only moderate by that one fact. I think a large percentage of the audience suspected some sort of trickery with the selection of the audience members, particularly after Penn yelled "IF YOUR IN ON THIS I'M GOING TO KILL YOU" loudly across the stage. The PERFECT routine -for those of you wondering- would be where all the spectators were chosen at random by a ball and then the predictions inside the envelopes were actually shown to the camera at the end, to remove any possibility of instant stooging or DR. However some dreams just don't come true. Tom xx
I call myself "Thomas Cooper" here because this stops the magic café appearing when people google my stage name.
Does anyone else find the term "Special User" to be a bit condescending? |
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