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Shyatt New user Bedfordshire, UK 11 Posts |
Hey guys
I've only just got into learning magic, starting off with card magic from "The Royal Road to Card Magic". I started practicing properly just over a week ago and have already completed the first few chapters. Even though I feel comfortable with what I have learnt- I can perform without staring at my hands and can also perform a few of the tricks from each chapter- am I going too fast? Furthermore I seem to be quite uncomfortable with the presentation and 'patter' side of performing tricks. Are there any suggestions anyone might have that could help me improve my confidence and vocal presentation? Thanks, Stephen |
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55Hudson Special user Minneapolis 984 Posts |
Stephen,
My personal rule is to run through a routine 100 time without looking or any issue, as if it were a show before sharing with anyone. One of the very best things about clubs for beginners is the opportunity to practice in front of a critical, but helpful audience. Experienced magicians will often be very helpful in working with you on basics. In summary, I would suggest you should measure your practice time in months, not days, before sharing with anyone. The last thing you want is a reputation - "on no, here comes Stephen with another one of his stupid card tricks". You must KILL them with the first thing you show them. Hudson. |
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Shyatt New user Bedfordshire, UK 11 Posts |
Thanks for the advice 55Hudson, I'll take that into account before I do anything hasty.
I think I need to elaborate on my original post, by saying that before I even opened the front cover of Royal Road I was able to semi-cleanly execute an overhand and riffle shuffle. This most certainly contributed to my speedy progression through those chapters. After having read through a few older threads, I have noticed that a lot of people put a lot of emphasis on mastering a trick or two before advancing to the next chapter. With regards to this, does that also include devising a complete script to go along with the trick? Because although I feel I can competently perform a few chosen tricks from the chapters I have already studied, I have mostly been improvising whilst performing (this didn't seem to work too badly but on the other hand it didn't flow as much as a scripted routine perhaps might). Stephen |
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Khal New user 27 Posts |
I'm in a similar situation I've decided that I'm only going to learn two or three tricks a month which use similar sleights/techniques before anything else so that I am repeating the same technique over and over (it's about the techniques not the tricks for me at this point), with any skill repetition really is the key I'm sure the more experienced members would agree.
As far as presentation and patter go I'm not too worried as I've trained in acting, if you're really worried about presentation try out some tricks that can't go wrong maybe an invisible deck or something just to work on your showmanship. I've learned quite a lot of techniques through acting which I'd be happy to share with anyone. Remember presentation takes work too, just to give an idea at my acting school we spent months working on simply relaxing in front of an audience/camera (not as basic at it sounds) and that's in a class full of extrovert actors and actresses. I think the way you present your tricks is vital and should be taken as seriously as the techniques themselves. A brilliant performer can make an average trick brilliant and conversely an poor performer can make a brilliant trick seem average. |
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KungFuMagic Regular user 167 Posts |
The thing about practice is that it creates muscle and neural memory. Tiresome repetition so that you can almost do it in your sleep. It's important because the nervousness, pace, sometimes chaos of live performance will challenge one's memory and casual skills. If you are stone cold with a technique and then the routine, then hecklers, a little noise, a hesitation of memory will be far less of an impact. One squirrel up your pants leg and it goes hinky. (don't pretend like you've never had it happen)
"A brilliant performer can make an average trick brilliant and conversely an poor performer can make a brilliant trick seem average." Wisdom, pure wisdom every time it is typed. Until the effect fits into your own personality and character, it will be missing a lot. When it really fits and you really know it and the presentation for yourself, then you can be who you are and the performance gets much much better. Plus, the more you read and learn from magicians, the greater the understanding and appreciation for those techniques and your ability to perform them artfully. The difference between a high school musician who can play the notes and an accomplished master who thinks, feels, sees, smells the core of it all.
Nick Sasso
part-time Samurai conjurer |
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Akal Singh New user 87 Posts |
Shyatt,
If you plan to deeply study magic, it won't be possible to master every move and every subtlety of presentation that you read. This is dreadfully true after just a few years working with magic literature. So, if your mastery speed is destined to be slower than your reading speed, my advice is: READ AS FAST AS YOU CAN. Only more and more magic awaits you. Don't stop practicing the basics, like the sleights in Royal Road, but don't stop taking in more and more. The beginner books will give you foundation. The more you read, the more opportunity you will have to find a trick that really fits you. Then you apply your foundation to that trick. Meanwhile, everything you read will become reference material that you can always refer back to. As to presentation, USE THE TRICK TO EXPRESS YOU. Make your verbal presentation, whatever the actual movements or illusion, about something YOU are interested in, something YOU experienced, something YOU care about. All the best, -Akal |
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
A week sounds a bit quick. You could be a prodigy and everything might look perfect, but a video showing your progress would certainly help. The big pitfall to avoid falling into is where you feel yourself starting to turn into a catalogue of sleights, but you don't have a proper trick that you can perform live yet. There's (at least) two reasons for this. First, you learn the sleights because they help you get to the tricks, so you should always keep that end goal in mind. Second, in performing the trick, you're actually going to learn things about the sleight that go beyond its simple mechanics (things like timing, misdirection, context, etc.), and you won't learn these things if you're focused solely on the sleights as individual tools.
Scripting patter is a flexible concept. Your goal should eventually be that you don't have dead time in the routine, and that the things you say help, rather than hinder, the trick, but the way one goes about coming up with a proper script can be a lifetime of study, and there's probably more than one way to go about it. In the meantime, nail a trick that you like and get flight time doing it for as many different audiences as possible.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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Father Photius Grammar Host El Paso, TX (Formerly Amarillo) 17161 Posts |
Probably a bit fast, but most beginners generally do that. You want to get into it, plunge in, and there is nothing wrong with it, most of us went that path. You will slow down in time, for now, enjoy.
"Now here's the man with the 25 cent hands, that two bit magician..."
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Shyatt New user Bedfordshire, UK 11 Posts |
Thanks to all for the contributions.
It's quite difficult for me at the moment to get out and about performing. I'm quite a shy person when it comes to unchartered social territory, and there aren't any places that I feel I could go to perform. I understand your advice that I should stop where I am in the book and concentrate now on what I have learnt so far, but this is difficult when the only real practice that I am getting is in front of a mirror. I know that eventually I am going to have to go out and perform to strangers, however I feel like people in my home town are very difficult people to approach. Andrew: You mentioned that I should perhaps make a video showing my progress; would this be a full performance of a trick including patter, or just short clips of the sleights I have thus far learned? Thanks again, Stephen |
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
Stephen,
Just the sleights, just to make sure that you can at least do those well. From what you said, I'm assuming you don't have performance-ready material, and that's ok. If you can do the sleights well in the chapters you've read so far, then you'll know if you're ready to keep going.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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Shyatt New user Bedfordshire, UK 11 Posts |
Father Photius:
You definitely hit the nail on the head there. That is exactly how I feel about it right now. I just don't want to hinder my progression by moving through it all too quickly. Andrew: You're right, I don't have performance-ready material; only simple versions of the tricks that don't really include much talking (which I find most difficult). If I get the time tomorrow, I'll record some short clips of my overhand and riffle shuffle controls, and my take on The Glide as well. Excuse the digression, but does anyone have any tips or recommendations for my gaining confidence in speaking publicly/to strangers? |
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-23 19:42, Shyatt wrote: Don't worry about it. That will come in time. Quote:
If I get the time tomorrow, I'll record some short clips of my overhand and riffle shuffle controls, and my take on The Glide as well. It doesn't have to be anything fancy, just something that demonstrates that you can control and switch deceptively.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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Shyatt New user Bedfordshire, UK 11 Posts |
Ok I will post a link to the videos some time tomorrow.
It's great to know that advice and encouragement is just a few clicks away. Thanks! |
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Shyatt New user Bedfordshire, UK 11 Posts |
I've just uploaded my video to youtube. Any tips and suggestions would be great.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76XgubXNWfY |
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
It's currently private. It's possible to change it so it's delisted (visible only to people with the link).
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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Shyatt New user Bedfordshire, UK 11 Posts |
I could have sworn I'd set it to unlisted.
It should be viewable now. |
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
Ok, watched it. Good work so far.
You're doing everything fine, but I'd recommend slowing down just a bit before moving onto the next few chapters, because you may be in danger of skipping one of the most important steps in developing sleight-of-hand, which is refinement. In your riffle shuffles, one thing you're doing very well (at least as well as many pros) is that you're keeping the shuffle even -- meaning, you're not riffling off a huge packet to retain at the bottom, or keeping a huge packet until the end to keep at the top. This is very good. The overhand shuffles, technically are also fine. The noise is pretty uniform, and your injogs are looking good as well. The big thing to do at this point is reduce the tension. I can't tell if it's because of the microphone or not, but generally, the sound a single card makes when it's being run is undesirable, and I'm hearing that sound a lot here, even when you're not running. I can't quite put my finger on it (Brad Burt's a good teacher, he might know the cause if he's reading this thread) but just going softer ought to eliminate it. Doing things just a bit softer will take the feeling of labour out of it. Since shuffling is supposed to be a randomizing procedure, you don't want to make it seem as though you're trying to accomplish something through it, and if things are a bit too tight and forceful it might tip the fact that you're not just shuffling. It'll have nothing to do with the technique, and everything to do with the energy surrounding it. Ultimately, this will help take heat off the proceedings, and do things like make the running of cards blend into the background. Once you get the tension out, then you can start to add a bit of speed, and that will help cover things like an injog or a milk action or whatnot. Seriously, though, your progress is good thus far. I'm sending you a PM with a couple of links to look at, just so you can get an idea of what tricks in the book you might be ready to perform straight away. You should latch onto one and perform the heck out of it for as many different people as possible. If there is one other thing you could start thinking about, it's how to display a card nicely. I know this was just a technical demo and as such the manner of showing us the card wasn't important, but you might as well fall into good habits early. Pinch the card at the bottom corner to display as much of the face as possible. Do you have a video for your glide?
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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JackLangdell New user 26 Posts |
Well done. Great progress.
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts |
I don't know if I watched the correct video - I'm a lousy computer person. But - I don't believe that telling you that the controls you did are fine helps you any. They weren't. Sorry. Remember, I'm just trying to help. For example, your overhand jog shuffle is really wrong. Why undercut an entire lower half and throw on top? I must have written this over the years literally HUNDREDS of times - to control the top card or cards: "Undercut, run and injog the first card, shuffle off. Form break at injog and SHUFFLE OFF to break." In other words, you don't just toss that entire lower block to top - SHUFFLE IT ONTO TOP. And, sorry, the riffle shuffle controls make little sense.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
Harry,
He's demonstrating his ability to do the technique in the book. The stuff you're talking about can be added later.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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