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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » P & T line up for tonight's show. (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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innercirclewannabe
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The reigning world card trick champion, Shawn Farquhar, does the impossible right under Penn's nose. Plus, Cuba's greatest Magician (Big Claim) Manuel Martinez, who now lives in Margate (Kent) - takes to the stage, & one act performs the most stunning climax to a trick (Even a bigger claim!) ever seen on TV!
Tá sé ach cleas má dhéanann tú sé cuma mhaith ar cheann.
quicknotist
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It's a joke. It's one of LOKi's comedy characters.

Quote:
On 2011-07-30 06:20, innercirclewannabe wrote:
Cuba's greatest Magician (Big Claim) Manuel Martinez, who now lives in Margate (Kent) - takes to the stage
Shrubsole
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I wonder what secrets are going to be blown tonight?

Failing that, the magicians can always blurt out what it's not in magical secret terms for everyone to google.

Any mentalist tricks to make people look like fools?
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Sean Giles
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I find the inevitable thread nearly as entertaining as the show. Here we go again... Tonight's supposed to be a good one.
innercirclewannabe
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Sean,

If reading a thread on an internet forum is as entertaining as a prime time T.V. magic show, well I think then we are all siging off the same hymn sheet!

I happen to agree with Shrubsole.
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innercirclewannabe
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Siging - should read singing.
Tá sé ach cleas má dhéanann tú sé cuma mhaith ar cheann.
Sean Giles
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Innercirclewannabe,

I do enjoy the show. I also quite enjoy the discussion afterwards Smile
nimrod
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Quote:
On 2011-07-30 08:24, Shrubsole wrote:
I wonder what secrets are going to be blown tonight?

Failing that, the magicians can always blurt out what it's not in magical secret terms for everyone to google.

Any mentalist tricks to make people look like fools?


Best magic shows in years, but I guess you can't please everyone.

Nimrod , Israel
Shrubsole
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How does exposure please anyone in our game?

How does showing that mentalism is nothing but a magic trick to be busted, please anyone in our game?

No matter what anyone's view is on what damage that may or may not do, I can't for the life of me see how a programme that sets out to stop performers fooling them by exposing how it was done, as the "Best magic shows in years"?

"but I guess you can't please everyone." Oh you could quite easily. Now let me think, straight off the top of my head... Oh yes! How about a magic show that doesn't set out to expose anything and people just watch it?

That would please everyone except kiddies trying to demand the secrets. And really that shouldn't be anyone on here should it?
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Doc_Z
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I really enjoy shawn farquhar... one more reason I wish we got this show in the US
Thomas Cooper
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Shrubsole, I agree with you almost 100%. I like you, and I agree that exposure is complete bull. It doesn't help us, and it should go and die in a hole.

However I don't think you can deny, that in terms of magic on television, this is really good tv. The acts are skilled and professional, and the judges are actually people with talent! Its easily the best show we've had in years - with the except of Derren's work ofcourse.
I call myself "Thomas Cooper" here because this stops the magic café appearing when people google my stage name.

Does anyone else find the term "Special User" to be a bit condescending?
Davit Sicseek
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Quote:
On 2011-07-30 11:50, Shrubsole wrote:
How does exposure please anyone in our game?

How does showing that mentalism is nothing but a magic trick to be busted, please anyone in our game?


You are making the mistake of dealing in absolutes. I think we can all be agreed that any level of exposure is in principle, taken in isolation - bad. On this there is no disagreement.

The real question is whether Fool Us represents a net benefit for the art as a whole.

It's easy to get distracted by the exposure question, even easier if it is one of your regularly performed effects, or an effect you have recently purchased that gets the exposure treatment - but even in that case it doesn't necessarily mean that the show is bad for the art as a whole.

Personally I think the show is on balance good for magic and mentalism. A straight magic show simply isn't going to get a slot on prime time UK TV. You might like a show where people just 'entertain us' or some cabaret type variety act where artists and wheeled on in order to do a turn - but that type of show is a relic of decades past. I think if people made an effort to quantify the benefits from the show and the detriments re exposure - you'd quickly see that it is making a decent contribution to the state of the art in the UK.
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Shrubsole
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I can see what you are trying to say, young Thomas, whilst it could have been good TV, it has let itself down by being a cheap points scoring, lowest denominator, show dressed up as good TV.

The whole overall view that it sets itself up as a challenge to fool them rather than provide good entertainment, backs this up. Its whole outlook is an aggressive one of 'Come on, fool us!' as that's what they have decided magic is all about and they are clearly showing that, that is how you behave towards a magician - You watch, for no other reason that to try and catch them out and when you see something, this TV show promotes the new socially acceptable; 'expose the magician and tell them in no uncertain terms that he didn't fool you.

If this is a good TV show with wonderful magicians (and not those just there to promote themselves at any cost to anyone else) then why not just show that then?

I really can't see this show as doing wonders for magic in general and if it does then it's the wrong sort of promotion altogether. A whole new generation of people now think that magic is all about fooling people and it their socially acceptable responsibility to get them and expose them before they make a fool of you.

And the same goes for those magicians who pretend they are mentalists, when they are just doing a trick! (rhetorical)
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innercirclewannabe
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You might like a show where people just 'entertain us' or some cabaret type variety act where artists and wheeled on in order to do a turn - but that type of show is a relic of decades past.

No one told Simon Cowell!
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Shrubsole
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"The real question is whether Fool Us represents a net benefit for the art as a whole."

Well let's see:

Exposure.
Labelling Magicians as people out to make fools of people.
That mentalists are nothing but magicians trying to con people.
Desperate performers willing to sell anyone up the river, in their selfish promotion.
And above all: the correct way to behave when watching a magician is no to sit back and enjoy it but to work it out at all costs and get them before they get you!

That's what I get from this show and having read the lay forums as I do to get an 'outside the café' real world view, that's what lay people have got from the show as well or they are the type this show attracts.
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Davit Sicseek
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Shrubsole - Seems like are trying to have it both ways here. You are unhappy about the exposure - and yet being 'fooled' isn't a factor worthy of consideration in terms of judging?

Fact of the matter is that people like to be fooled, they like to have things exposed to them. They might not like the feeling after its been exposed to them - but it does the trick of keeping them watching and watching the adverts.

As for Cowell... none of his shows are cabaret variety acts. They all have their angle as does pretty much every prime time reality show. Seems natural to me that this angle would be related to secrets/exposure/fooling. Having said that, perhaps you are on to something. Maybe you could pitch your no-frills magical entertainment show to Sky 1. Maybe jazz it up and make it something truly different by having a phone in vote Smile
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innercirclewannabe
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I agree. If the main aim is to "Figure out" how its done, well then, I think the Art is belittled and in some ways redundant!
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Shrubsole
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Quote:
On 2011-07-30 13:48, innercirclewannabe wrote:
You might like a show where people just 'entertain us' or some cabaret type variety act where artists and wheeled on in order to do a turn - but that type of show is a relic of decades past.

No one told Simon Cowell!


Do you perform to entertain people or to make fools out of them?
Do you work WITH your audience or in spite of them and at them?
Does your show get spoilt by people grabbing things and doing what this show promotes 'getting you at any cost'?
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innercirclewannabe
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BTW - my last post was in agreement with Shrubsole.

Davit,

Cowell's success was based on his knowledge of "Bygone" TV and how the variety show format would still work, allbeit with a direct marketing ploy to make him rich, i.e. The Phone Vote.
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Davit Sicseek
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Shrub - you made a list of the detriments only.

And for the record - it is performers alone that bear responsibility for making 'fools' of people (as distinct from fooling them). Semantics perhaps, but there is a different there. You can amaze an audience and leave them without a clue as to the secret without making them feel or appear "foolish". When I've watched Fool Us, I've never perceived that making people feel foolish is part of it. Some performers are guilty of this however... but that has always been the case. Same about your 'conning comment'.

Sure, performers will sell each other up the river. Who'd have thought it?

As for trying to figure out the secret rather than 'sitting back and enjoying it' - that's been the case for decades as well. I remember watching Paul Daniels when I was a kid and wondering how he did it? Asking how he did it. Trying to see the secret. Trying to reproduce. Same for my siblings, same for my friends and the same thing today. This of course is totally natural - anyone with a brain knows its not real magic - so being alert (if not always actively seeking) to the secret is only to be expected.
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