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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » P & T line up for tonight's show. (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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nimrod
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Quote:
On 2011-07-30 23:51, Lior wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-07-30 18:38, Shrubsole wrote:
You should see that site after a Derren Brown special! There is one on there who hates Derren with such venom, I think he should be on a list of people not allowed within a mile of Derren.

And when they can't work out something Derren does, boy do they get very ugly.


I saw Derren show 2weeks ago and spent some time with him backstage.
It was sold out, many fans waited for aoutograpahs and he spent 20 min with them
Then we went to drink and everyone liked him.
So this forum didn't effect him, his show or his life.

Lior



Lior you lucky ***.
Martin.Lester
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On 2011-07-30 17:37, Shrubsole wrote:
Warning to anyone popping over there - Just read and do not join up and think that you will change their minds about exposure - I've been there and done that in the past and it doesn't end well - They are vicious!

And of course DO NOT MENTION THE CAFÉ! We don't want that lot here!


Yes very clever now that your name is mentioned all the lay person has to do is google it and it links
Back to magic Café , talkmagic and all the other forum you vacate
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twm
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It seems to me that we can either sit and wring out hands and complain that the world is unfair to magicians, or we can accept that this is the world we live in.

Suppose someone made a series exposing Penn and Teller's magic. Morally, it would almost be defensible, except of course that other people use the same techniques. But ignore that for a moment. Just imagine a series - 'Penn and Teller Exposed'. Would it harm Penn and Teller? My guess is that it would do them far more good than harm.
Lior
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On 2011-07-31 04:18, Martin.Lester wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-07-30 20:28, quicknotist wrote:
Not a link to the latest episode but see Penn and Teller both(!) speaking about Fool Us at Comic Con 2011:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPgND-B_Afc#t=2m15s


I think this demonstrates the great respect that P&T had for the performers on the show


I agree
great interview.

I think that one member here is the one that expouse all the magic in the lay people forum.
There are 50-60 kids there at the most. someof them will become amature magicians, some of them will become
something and some will move to the next forum.
don't worry about all this forums. nothing will happen

Lior
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Thomas Cooper
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I think only an idiot would say that the forums do not change anything. Exposure does change and hurt magic - but in the same way radiation hurts your lungs: the effects take years to see, and happen on the large scale, not on the small.

There was a massive decline in the popularity of magic, and there have also been times of massive hype about magic. What do you think causes these changes? They do not happen by themselves. The truth is that if P&T expose a gimmick or prop then the next day magic as a whole will feel no different, but its the difference in the publics eyes that changes over time. There was a time when exposure was non-existent (almost) and then we had more flexibility in our methods and presentations.

Forums will not stop you getting booked this week or the next week, but ten or fifteen years down the line, when this generation has grown up and is used to googling everything and having the answers in seconds, then it will make a difference. Imagine in two decades from now, when that mindset of todays annoying teenagers ("I can just google it") is actually part of your employers. They will be the ones hiring you - and that's not a good thing.

In the long term forums will cause a lot of harm to magic, aswell as a lot of good ofcourse. You won't notice it now, but once the general publics attitude to mystery, psychics and mind reading has changed... then you will notice. I've started to notice it a bit already, just because of Penn. Its only minor right now, but the day will come when the influence of these forums has much wider consequences than what it has now.


Tom
xx
I call myself "Thomas Cooper" here because this stops the magic café appearing when people google my stage name.

Does anyone else find the term "Special User" to be a bit condescending?
IAIN
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Well...the easiest way is to use your own presentations and everything is fine...

more fun too...

13 steps and PME are no doubt available for free if you dig around the internet enough - the secrets are already out there, google-able...

I'm over it...

I don't like it - but I'm over it...

maybe we shouldnt keep causing such public distress after every show though...
mastermindreader
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Quote:
Thomas Cooper wrote:

...There was a time when exposure was non-existent (almost) and then we had more flexibility in our methods and presentations.


What time was that, Tom? Sometime prior to The Discoverie of Witchcraft perhaps?
Shrubsole
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The one thing in the mentalist's favour is that the type on that site are terminally lazy. They are not interested in performing or becoming performers, they just want the quick fix answer of "How did he know she would pick that one?".

Fortunately, unless you have an interest in learning mentalism, things like '13 steps' are mind-numbingly boring. So even if you were to post "It tells you exactly how he did that in '13 steps'", that isn't the answer they are looking for and very few would bother going looking for it even if it were free. And of those those who did, they would fall asleep at page one!

As far as mentalism goes on this show: Now I'm am not the type of mentalist who goes out as a real mystic and all the pretentiousness that entails, but this show really cheapens mentalism to nothing but a magic trick and to treat them the same; bully them until you get the secret you want.
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LLL
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On 2011-07-31 06:01, Thomas Cooper wrote:

There was a time when exposure was non-existent (almost) and then we had more flexibility in our methods and presentations.

Tom
xx


when was this time Thomas? Your speaking like you remember them well?
Exposure has always been around in some sort of form. houdini, canasta, brown.. all been exposed..

which brings me to brown.. here's an interesting quote he gave to bad psychics on the subject of exposure by the masked magician;

"Well, they were horrid to watch, although I'd already started to drift away from that sort of magic. Ultimately, though, they did help magic on TV. In a perverse way, they kept interest in the subject from waning: they were a decadent symptom of the television magic we were all rather tired with at the time. People did watch the shows, which meant that TV execs knew there was still some life in the subject. It took Blaine to then make the change."

interested to hear peoples thoughts on that?

Andy
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LLL
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Sorry bob you must have posted when I was typing.

andy
The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words.
Shrubsole
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Quote:
On 2011-07-31 06:35, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
Thomas Cooper wrote:

...There was a time when exposure was non-existent (almost) and then we had more flexibility in our methods and presentations.


What time was that, Tom? Sometime prior to The Discoverie of Witchcraft perhaps?


Oh long before that I think.

Many early religions revolved around the high priests having the secret knowledge and keeping the 'audience' ignorant of such secrets.

Nothing changes much!
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Thomas Cooper
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Nah. There was a time when the ONLY way you could discover the secrets was to read rather hard to find books. Go back a hundred years or more and you have that situation.
I call myself "Thomas Cooper" here because this stops the magic café appearing when people google my stage name.

Does anyone else find the term "Special User" to be a bit condescending?
innercirclewannabe
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I don't have a problem understanding any post you have made Davit. The problem is when you read them back, you are continually changing your opinion! Anyway, I have no interest in being personal about this, that is not my style. However, I feel your comment that the show is the way it is does not address the broader issue which is indicative of TV programmes today - unless there is a voyeuristic slant to the show, it simply won't work. This is lazy and predictable thinking on behalf of the programme makers.



The series is over now and doesn't return until the Big Christmas Special. On reflection, it has at least allowed us to debate & offer opinions, that in itself is always welcome.
Tá sé ach cleas má dhéanann tú sé cuma mhaith ar cheann.
Shrubsole
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Quote:
On 2011-07-31 07:02, Thomas Cooper wrote:
Nah. There was a time when the ONLY way you could discover the secrets was to read rather hard to find books. Go back a hundred years or more and you have that situation.


And on that point it's not too strange that it was only the religious leaders who could read!
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LLL
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Thomas, When exactly do you think houdini was around? at that time newspapers were the peoples medium, and fraudulant psychics were having thier methods exposed a lot.
The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words.
LLL
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1873 Professor Hoffman begins to supply magic tricks to "Every Boy's Annual" or " Boy's Own Paper ", a popular magazine for boys in London, England. Hoffman claims that he placed them there because magicians were so unprogressive and would not alter their acts. He continues to supply tricks to the magazine until 1877.

taken from

http://www.geniimagazine.com/magicpedia/......xposures
The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words.
Martin.Lester
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On 2011-07-30 21:03, Davit Sicseek wrote:
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I will refer you back to my earlier post Davit when I wrote, why not call it "Penn & Teller Entertain us". Same show without the exposing. Are you of the opinion that this format would not make the viewer who is not already involved - go out and buy a magic set, and let their journey begin from there.
I think this is real perspective.


I didn't think I was making myself this difficult to understand. You are comparing what we have to what you would like. What you would like "Pen & Teller Entertain Us" would never get commissioned because we live in 2011. Magic is clearly not the easiest thing to get commissioned - hence why the number of prime time magic shows in the UK in the last decade can be counted on one hand. The show we have is the show we have. That was the one that got pitched and that was the one that was made.

I'm saying the show IS a net benefit to the art. You say it isn't. I think that's daft.

You might not think its ideal. You might be right in saying that a slightly more 1980's straight laced magic show has the potential to work commercially in the UK market. Might. But that's not what we have - so pontificating about it isn't much use.


The Question on why the show was not called " Entertain Us" has been answered by the Fool Us Production Team

" We have had many people who have questioned the Fool Us/Entertain Us concept. The fact of the matter is, if you had a show called Entertain Us we would have ended up with around 40 magicians going to Vegas as P&T we genuinely entertained by everyone they saw. You could put in grounds and rules on what classifies as being entertaining, but like I explained before - if you were pitching a show idea to a channel with layers upon layers of rules they would never go for it. An viewer wants a simple format that they can sit down watch, and not have to think of all the rules that apply."

The Other Points have also been answered

"We are never going to find one way to judge these reveals that is going to please everyone. Whilst many magicians would prefer more use of the jargon to protect methods you have to think also of the lay people at home who have no idea of magic. If they tuned in every week only for the reveals to contain a bunch of code words they don't understand they would never come back. Obviously P&T tried their best to keep a healthy balance, but either way you can please some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time"
McCoy
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Seems like exposure is the new magic...

Even B&S's Edinburgh festival show starting in a few days time features a reveal show at midnight!

http://www.comedy.co.uk/fringe/2011/feat......terview/

Ahem... I'll be going. Smile
PWRIS
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GREAT P&T, hit Scotland ...
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'Reality' TV has turned all presentational performers into ducks in a shooting gallery.
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