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elimagic Inner circle 1663 Posts |
Hi everyone,,,, I am putting a routine together and am using Grand Finale from the Edward Scissorhands soundtrack,, as many people do. After the first crescendo, this is where I will produce the snow via snow animator. However there is a second crescendo shortly after,,, There is too much time between the first and second to just do one massive snow load, and was wondering if I should at the end of the first crescendo stand up, take my bow, and then on the second crescendo throw a kabuci streamer. My question though is, does the addition of throwing the streamer diminish the production of the snow, and in turn lower the value of the routine entirely?
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Oliver Ross Inner circle Europe 1724 Posts |
Personally I would give it a try, video tape it and ans k friends, family, magicians and ennemis what they think about.
Here now my question : Why using the same music as Kevin James in his snowstorm routine or as "all" the others out there ? There's enough music out there in the world to ge inspired and to personalize this routine, fitting your stage character. Oliver. |
Rich Hill Regular user Nashville, Indiana USA 166 Posts |
My thoughts exactly! Tons of really great music out there!
Rich Hill
<BR>www.richhillsillusionshop.com |
w_s_anderson Inner circle The United States 1226 Posts |
Kevin James actually uses "The Ice Dance" from Edward Sissorhands and not "Grand Finale." I would edit the song to bring the two crescendos closer together. I also wouldn't throw a streamer. I think that it would detract from what you just did (that just my opinion though) Of all the illusions/tricks/routines I have performed, this one is my hands down favorite. It is also the audience favorite in my show. It really says something when a 2 dollar snow packet with a good plot, storyline, and presentation holds it's own better than a 10,000 dollar illusion!!
What is the storyline of your presentation? A streamer might make sense under the right circumstances. |
Rich Hill Regular user Nashville, Indiana USA 166 Posts |
Seems to me there are some wonderful pieces on the soundtrack to Polar Express...
Rich Hill
<BR>www.richhillsillusionshop.com |
TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Unless he changed it, I believe it is Grand Finale. I can remember watching his video
a million times trying to get my timing right on it. It's number 15 on the cd. Time is 3:26. I personally would never change the music, it fits so well. Odds are slim that you will do it in front of a Kevin James audience anyway? Even if you did, you never going to be able to hide the fact that it is his trick. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
elimagic Inner circle 1663 Posts |
I was using the overture from the notebook soundtrack,,, but I only need one highpoint from the snow,, since if starting over and simplifying the routine. It was too "busy" before,, and it was taking away from the beauty of the act
The reason I'm using this music is simply, it works great with my act, as I already other tracks from that same soundtrack on other routines in my act, so it fits. Not trying to "copy" anyone elses ideas here(except for the routine which is kevins,, in which case everyone who does it is technically copying his routine,, aka snow animator) |
TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
The Ice Dance sounds the same only it is much shorter. 1:45
The reason I say Kevin used Grand Finale was the length. He started it during the story and you could barely hear it in the background and then really cranked up the volume at the right moment. Of course I could be wrong, it's been a long time. And then it's possible he used both. I do remember them sounding about the same on the cd I had. Either way, timing is everything with it, and you just have to figure it out the hard way. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
Sam Sandler Inner circle 2487 Posts |
Well here is a subject I love to talk about.
first to be honest I am not a fan of the snow animators (no pun intended) but if your using one its ok. lets start with the question of the kubuki streamers.. if they are real ones then yes they ADD to the effect especially if you are using the jumbo or large size ones.. if they are knock offs or small ones well they just don't add anyting to the performance then. what I can tell you is that to the audience with or with our the throw streamer the snow storm DONE RIGHT will blow them away. after 2500 performances of my original snow storm some times with and some times with out the throw streamer and I don't think there is a huge difference. both my assitant and I can tell though the nights that I throw a streamer out there is an added gasp and a bit more applause (not always) but most of the time. as for the music yea find your own! personally that's how I feel. truth is that the audience does not know the difference it will be magicains that tell you that you are using KJ music and you should find your own. but its not wrong to use it however it does show a bit of a lack of creativity on your part. not trying to bash you rather trying to inspire you to find a way to make this your own. when I first approached this effect I was so frustrated. never did I realize that so many magicians NEVER saw snow! I really hope your story line is original even if the music is not. the story - that's the real important part of the effect. make it personal make it believable and you will have yourself a winner. one last thing. what type of snow do you use. honestly there is only one type out there that will blow away any and all others. well that's my take on it. good luck and have some fun with the routine it really is the ultimate pack small play huge effect out there! sam
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com http://www.deafinitelymagic.com |
elimagic Inner circle 1663 Posts |
To answer your questions mr sandler
yes I use authentic kabuki streamers I use 2 seo snow loads,, one medium size normal white,, and then one medium sized of the tanzu (spelled it wrong,, but its the ones that fall longer) and I tape them together my story is original the basis is based on when I went to africa on a missions trip and was doing magic and a little girl asked me about snow,,, which funny enough actually happened,, so it works well. |
Sam Sandler Inner circle 2487 Posts |
Very good and yes Seo magic is the best and its tanzaku snow or in america its called slowfetti cut more of a rectangle shape rather then a square.
you describe exactly what I teach in my lectures and have written many times on the Café have your read my other comments or listened to my podcast?? just curious, good for you for using the best stuff and working a story that is personal to you,, you will have more of a conection with the audience and have a better "hook" with it being personal. I look forward to hearing how it goes and maybe seeing it performed one day. sam
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com http://www.deafinitelymagic.com |
elimagic Inner circle 1663 Posts |
I do believe I read a comment you made a few years ago or something regarding using both snowstorms to create texture and just an all around better storm,, So I have you too thank for that Mr Sandler
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Sam Sandler Inner circle 2487 Posts |
Your quite welcome!
one tip if I may- one of the reasons I don't like the snow animators is that when I have seen the performances it is very obvious how the snow is blowing upward not a design flaw in the stool but rather a performance flaw! you see most of the performances I have seen literally break teh snow and let it fall out of their hands into the path of the air flow- this is Wrong! what should be happening is that you break the snow and work it in your hands so that the flow of air runs thru them and then lifts the snow there for there is no "dumping" of snow into your lap. it looks horrible when I watch it done the wrong way seeing this clump of snow fall back into your lap and then suddenly blow up into the air. again the key is to find the airflow running thru your hands so that it appears to the audience it is blowing right out of your hands not being dropped into a blower. hope that makes sense for you. sam
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com http://www.deafinitelymagic.com |
Kent Wong Inner circle Edmonton, Alberta, Canada 2458 Posts |
If this is a story about a little girl you met in Africa, then why not incorporate music with an African theme or feel? The right music can significantly add to the mood and feel of the story you are creating. For instance, my show incorporates an East meets West type of theme throughout the program. It is a soft blend of asian culture with western style magic and illusion. As a result, the music I use in my snowstorm effect is a piece called "One World, One Dream". The lyrics blend seamlessly from Mandarin to English and ties in perfectly with the rest of the show. Obviously, this song would not fit the story you are trying to tell, but it does illustrate the importance of tying in the music with the storyline to create a unified whole.
As for your original question, you may also consider combining another effect with the snow animator routine. Of course, both effects need to tie into the storyline. For instance, what if you did a torn & restored tissue paper, creating a representation of a snowball just before the restoration at the first crescendo. This would create your first applause cue. The restored tissue paper could be rolled back into a snowball as you use it to transition into snowstorm. I only suggest this because you indicated that there was a significant amount of time between the two crescendos. The applause may have died down already by the time the second crescendo hits, and that may make the throwing of the streamer seem out of place. In addition to the music, think about the added effect you can create with the lighting and staging. What would the intense heat of an African desert look like as far as lighting is concerned? Would the lighting change as the snowstorm is created? What other African elements can you bring to the staging of the routine to emphasize the geography and the temperature? What about the actual prop you're using? Can it be decorated or modified to fit into an African motif? The snowstorm is such a strong effect when presented with a solid storyline, along with proper lighting, sound and staging. If you pull together all of these elements, you can create a truly magical moment. Have Fun! Kent
"Believing is Seeing"
<BR>______________________ <BR> <BR>www.kentwongmagic.com |
Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2607 Posts |
Eli...
There have been some great comments on here. Kent has some wonderful theatrical ideas and hopefully you will find something that is unique to you. This might not be a popular comment but for me, the "Snowstorm" effect as it is currently being massively exhibited is not so much magic at all. It is little more than a special effect that illustrates a hopefully poignant story. What is the magic exactly? The production of paper? The production of air? It is magic in the same way throw streamers are magic.... which is minimally. It is a strong visual element, not a really strong "magic" effect. Do people know where the air comes from? Maybe, maybe not. Do they not know the paper is just in your hand? They probably do. If it resonates with you and you have the performance skills to make it great, then go for it knowing that based on your abilities it will either work or come off really cheesy. When Kevin started doing this current version it played as a "philosophy closer" to what was a strong set of magic preceding it. David took that idea and amped it up to what is the current memory of the effect which is now copied ad nauseam around the globe. As an example...If you were to do this effect on its own... would it sell you as a magician? Probably not. It's success rests solely on your abilities as a story teller which is why it seems so cheesy in many cases. As I mentioned one time, just because you put eggs, flour, sugar and milk in a bowl doesn't mean a cake is going to come out. It's not the ingredients that make the cake, it is the way you put it together and how good of a cook you are. David was a master storyteller and many people had tears in their eyes when he did this effect. It was a powerful moving moment. Most other times when I've seen magicians try and copy it... people just think "Wow, that's really cool paper!" and they clap. If you're going to use it, PLEASE just have the chops to pull it off.
Ray Pierce
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markmiller Special user 731 Posts |
Since this is so overdone, wouldn't it be great to put the Snowstorm aside and work on some lesser done, or even some - non-cliche unknown to modern audiences - type items? Here's a novel idea, maybe we should all work on effects that we've never seen anyone else do. Books are full of new discoveries waiting to be unveiled.
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w_s_anderson Inner circle The United States 1226 Posts |
Kent....those are wonderful ideas! Eli, I would definitely listen to what Mr. Wong is saying! That will definitely help step your snowstorm routine up a knotch.
I disagree that the snowstorm is overdone by magicians. To say that is to say that everything that is marketed is overdone. I have never had an audience member complain to me that they have seen someone else do a snowstorm before, levitation before, an origami before, a shadow box before, a modern art before, a metamorphosis before, ect. ect. ect. While I don't think an effect is overdone for a lay audience, I do believe that too many people are doing these effects horribly wrong. Ray's example for the snowstorm comes to mind. It isn't that great of a trick, but it does convey a good ending to a story. So many D-bags try and recreate Copperfield's or James' story and they just suck at it. Their inability to connect with the audience causes their effect to fail, because without the connection there is no illusion. It is just what Ray said.....floating paper. Done right it can be the most inspiring and remembered effect of your show.....it is for mine And as a disclaimer, I too, hated the snowstorm with a passion before a very cool reason to perform it presented itself to me. |
ClintonMagus Inner circle Southwestern Southeast 3997 Posts |
This falls into the same discussion of "overdone" illusions that pops up regularly on the Café, They are only overdone to those who get to see a LOT of magicians in a LOT of different venues. To the average spectator, the effects are very powerful and are not seen every day. They are classics, and they are performed often for a reason.
Johnny Ace Palmer has performed the same act for years, as did Jay Marshall, Walter Blaney, etc. They do that because they found something that works and they stuck with it. Most of their stuff is relatively "stock", with their own presentational twists thrown in.
Things are more like they are today than they've ever been before...
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elimagic Inner circle 1663 Posts |
I think,, from my limited knowledge of this effect,, that snowstorms are done a lot by magicians, but they are rarely done well. So to say that its overdone is in the eye of the beholder.
thanks everyone for the great advice greatly appreciated |
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