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Brad Burt Inner circle 2675 Posts |
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On 2011-08-06 10:51, funsway wrote: Ken: Part of my problem is that I don't see the connection between someone who can't remember how to get somewhere they've just been and the 'future of performing magic'? Mini Skirts are popular again. What does that say about the future of the High School Senior Proms? Reality TV is a sometimes virulent cesspool of snarky morons. What does that say about the future of the Mystery Novel? I'm not trying to obtuse. I don't see how you bring the two (or more) together? It's starting to coma across as a desire on your part to GUARANTEE that every audience will be a good audience for magic. To in effect guarantee that all presentations of magic will be successful. That's how your position reads. But, when (I) think of what it would take to achieve that I picture a world like something out of science fiction in which everyone is exactly the same by fiat. Like Robert Duvall in THX 1138. I'll be honest a world in which everyone liked 'magic' would be a world that scare the snot out of me. I want more variety. I don't want black and white. Give me some color. Give me some folks that HATE magic and magicians with a passion. Why? Why not? I love most music especially the blues, but I hate and despise John Gage's work. I pretty much disliked Frank Zappa's work, but I'm glad he was around and I 'tried' to like him, just couldn't. Why should I? Magic as Whit, I and others perform it is in no trouble of vanishing. In the forty years I have been in the business I have, like Whit, watched it cycle. The observable cycle for me was 11-13 years long. Up and then down. Up and then down almost without variant. When I was making money on shows and teaching, retail was soft. Retail would harden up and I would do less shows, etc. Things tended to balance out and then start all over again. Cop shows are being replaced with the more cheaply produced, yet wildly popular "reality" show of one kind or another. Differing reality show types are cycling from one to the next. Different kinds of movies genre grow hot and then cold. Cycles. Magic rides them just like everything else. By the way I have no problem in believing the you and others who may feel and think the same could start a, hmmmm, Genre Cycle in magic. Why not? If it's a workable frame work it might fly. All things get tested. If it doesn't work for enough folks then it will fall away. Here's another example of how magic changed radically. When I first began doing Close-up Work....EVERYONE that I knew and I knew a LOT of guys doing close-up worked seated. Special seating was designed to hold magic, music, etc. You worked sitting down. I watched with open wonder as that changed almost completely. Restaurant/strolling work came into vogue and withing just a few short years you could hardly find a close-up guy who worked seated EXCEPT at 'magician' venues: The Magic Castle or magic conventions. Close-up went from a kind of staid, sessile form to a standing, moving, much more active form. But, the over all effect and affect was the same. Only the mode of presentation changed and with it the range of routines allowable, etc. Best,
Brad Burt
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BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2537 Posts |
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On 2011-08-06 12:38, funsway wrote: I don't think that it is a good idea to try to teach all people something about the performance of magic. I also don't think that it's a good idea to encourage everyone to learn to do oil painting, play piano, or be actors. A student of magic should be someone who has a passion for learning performance magic. The student should be the sort of person who would ignore other people when they say that he/she shouldn't waste his/her time by becoming a magician. If this passionate student were a person considered to be "less than able," there are still wonderful magic effects that could be taught. Still, I wouldn't want to try to teach someone magic if that person had not already shown a strong desire to learn. If you try to teach all of those considered to be "less than able" magic tricks, you are communicating an interesting subtext: performing magic only seems to be hard; in fact, it is very easy. (Some children's magic books contain this same subtext.) I don't like this because 1) it's not true and 2) it trivializes performance magic for everyone.
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
Brad -- you read far too much into my questions which are meant to explore rather than advise. I greatly appreciate some of the insights that have been offered.
Yes, everyone is "less than able" in some way -- those with pysical disabilties just admit it. The focus is to help people overcome what they consider impossible, to be free of the artificial perceptual barriers imposed by others. Whenever a magician demonstrates overcoming the impossible it inspires folks to make more of their lives -- to question what is certain and what is illusion. This is good. But, you just want to do magic tricks for entertainment. OK, but don't pretend that limits the reach or potential of performance magic. I would rather a person "entertain a new idea" than "be entertained." No Barry, performance magic empowers -- never trivializes. Eugene Burger offers, "To make judgements [about magic] implies some sort of comparison between what we experience in a magical performance, on the one hand, and what we experience in our ordinary, everyday lives, on the other ... we expereince the things that happen ina magical performance as things that we would typically describe as impossible. In a magical performance we come face to face with the unexpected and impossible in life." But, when magic is trivialized by mass media, peoples concept of what is truly not possible and what is only imaged as impossible, no valid judgments can be made. When most people observe a result that they consider impossible they use the word magic -- aloud and in their hearts. They accept "I don't know" as a valid cause and reevaluate what they consider certain. A magic show is a safe, vicarious place to test such perceptions and I applaud that; but don't ever believe that this limited venue is the only or even best place for magic to happen. Magic happens in the minds of the observer. That is never trivial and should be nurtured in every way possible. Certainly you only teach those who express an interest. How do you create the interest -- that is the challenge.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
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On 2011-08-06 14:03, BarryFernelius wrote: I think magic is a special case, because it has to do with secrets, and secrets should not be handed out casually. However, I do think that in the educational career of of any student, there should be the experience of trying his/her hand at a performance and/or studio art. Whether they are good or not is immaterial, and I wouldn't necessarily expose such students to a paying audience. However, everyone should know what an artist attempts to do, in the same way I would hope that each student gets to play with test tubes in their school laboratory, learns a foreign language, or attempts to solve a quadratic equation.
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Alan Wheeler Inner circle Posting since 2002 with 2038 Posts |
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On 2011-08-05 21:02, tommy wrote: I think to Ken "Our Magic" is a romantic, expressive art that reflects the Heart of the universe transcendent, which is also reflected in the smile of a child and the tides of the ocean and which is thematically, practically, and ideally suited for service to humanitarian causes. But could you put the question in true/false or multiple choice, please?
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
A BLENDED PATH Christian Reflections on Tarot Word Crimes Technology and Faith........Bad Religion |
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Alan Wheeler Inner circle Posting since 2002 with 2038 Posts |
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On 2011-08-06 12:32, stoneunhinged wrote: Ortiz wrote that, when designing miracles and strong magic, nothing is more important than knowing how non-magicians think. I'm not sure you two qualify, though.
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
A BLENDED PATH Christian Reflections on Tarot Word Crimes Technology and Faith........Bad Religion |
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BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2537 Posts |
Landmark,
I agree that it's good for everyone to understand what an artist attempts to do. But it doesn't follow that everyone necessarily should do what an artist attempts to do. Consider an analogy based on another academic pursuit: mathematics. Almost everyone learns how to solve a quadratic equation. Almost everyone has an idea of how to use the formula to find the two solutions to a quadratic equation. (And those who can't remember can still look it up.) This is a good thing. Only the person who is on fire with respect to mathematics has a deep understanding of why the quadratic formula works. The passionate mathematician, as opposed to most people, can still show you the derivation of the quadratic equation from first principles. Magic students should exhibit the same sort of fierce passion.
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
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Brad Burt Inner circle 2675 Posts |
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On 2011-08-06 14:44, funsway wrote: Ken: Stated as above I agree with virtually everything you say with the following caveat: 'Some' folks 'may' indeed find some form of inspiration in a magic performance, but there is NO need that they do so. Some folks will. If you are saying that magic 'could' in some circumstances and with planning and focus be used to illustrate that many of us are bound by, well, whatever binds us then cool. I have no problem with that. Magic as metaphor is a long established tradition. All I would say is that it 'need' not be so, nor do I think that that is the normal mode of it's presentation. The human condition is too varied to assume anything from a particular performance EXCEPT that it entertain. No matter what else comes out of it for any particular viewer it should always entertain. And, then, come what will. IF for instance a particular performer has as his or her goal that magic accomplish another 'meta goal' beyond the entertainment that's fine also. That's the purview of the specific performer. I think some of the problem I have had is the 'feeling', and I could be wrong about this, was a sense of over generalization squeezing ALL magic performance into a box the goal of which was...well, whatever it was. The only encompassing generalization that I'm comfortable with is that all performance of magic should entertain. All best,
Brad Burt
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
“Incidentally, the preceding paragraph suggests a general definition of the characteristic feature of any magical feat that which distinguishes magical effects from those produced by other arts. Probably no better definition than this can be found: Something or somebody is caused to pass mysteriously from one place or condition to another. That is what invariably happens when a magical feat is performed. We cannot do any single magical thing which that sentence does not broadly describe.
In view of this definition, we are led to appreciate the essential limitations of the magic art. And, at the same time, we are impressed with the necessity for knowing the best means for utilizing the scanty material at our disposal. The difficulty of producing a new magical effect is about equivalent to that of inventing a new proposition in Euclid. That, however, is a matter for congratulation, rather than otherwise. The greater the difficulty, the greater the merit. It is a fact which should add much to the dignity of our art. In our present inquiry, the most important point to be remembered is this: Realizing the extreme difficulty of raising any worthy superstructure upon foundations so narrow, we have every reason to be careful in our architecture.” Our Magic The Art in Magic -- The Theory of Magic By NEVIL MASKELYNE
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
Thanks for trying to understand, Brad, rather than project or guess.
"a sense of over generalization squeezing ALL magic performance into a box the goal of which was...well, whatever it was." Methinks you have this backwards. This is my problem with the approach taken by many posters on the Café' -- to attempt to cram all of performance magic into an "for entertainment" box -- and attack any suggestion that other alternatives are possible -- such as Universal Statements about magic itself, and insinuations that any such activity must be unethical, archane or illegal. I have clearly stated my acceptance of the term "Our Magic" to apply to performance of effects for the purpose of entertainment before a willing and knowing audience. When I choose to perform within that 'theater" I readily use The Dilemma and other traditional guidelines in formulating effects and routines. When I choose to perform magic effects for other purposes I am not bound by these "elements." Nor should anyone assume/project that methods I describe for "Interactive Performance" need apply or replace these "elements." Various persons on the Café' bring unique experiences to the table that MIGHT be of use to another magician: Whit's forging of the Tgheater of the Dilemma base on hands-on entertainment, Brads years over the counter selling magic effects, Etienne's incredible research and documentation, etc. I bring more than 50 years of performing magic effects for many thousands of in whcih entertainment was not the objective. If you do not find that interesting or of value, then don't read my posts. But to argue with my experience is silly. You can certainly argue with any conclusions I draw, but personal attacks are not "arguments," and guessing at what I mean is not an "argument." So, why do I persist? Look at the stats. Only a few persons have posted on this thread -- many intended to divert the thread into some dark ally for a mugging. But many hundreds of other members have viewed these post and hopefully learned for the information and views provided. I will happily deal with those who wrote me privately for a deeper undestanding of my experiences have shaped my life and WorldView. For me, all performance magic (of the pretend sort) us a subcategory of metaphorical communication, and that a subcategory of man's attempt to deal with the unknown. "Our Magic" is one approach -- only one, and hardly describes the universe. Thus, I am a student of human interaction first, a student of decision-making processes second, a praticioner of allegory and dialectic processes third, a magician forth, and an "actor to the public need to be entertained" a distant last. Sorry if that offends anyone.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts |
I don't think anyone here is offended, Ken. I get frustrated because I haven't got a clue what you are talking about, what you are trying to accomplish, what it looks like in action, how it differs from the artform I was taught and have been working on for more than forty years, or how you go about it. Perhaps it would help if one of the thousands you have helped would tell us what the experience was like and what he gained from it.
In the artform I am involved in, the audience does NOT think I have accomplished the impossible. They know they have seen a simulcrum of the impossible. Just because they have failed to find any possible method doesn't mean they ever think there is none. They know magicians have lots of clever, sneaky methods to make things look as if the impossible has happened. They don't understand what these could be, but they know they are normal, natural causes--trickery of some kind that they don't know about. If someone thinks I have truly accomplished something impossible, then I feel as if my performance has slipped into charlatanry and I should reevaluate what I have presented. In my mind, to convince anyone of something that isn't true is a disservice, and one that can have far-reaching and unforseeable consequences. The little mouse that gave Dumbo a magic feather was only lucky that Dumbo actually could fly. If he gave a Magic Feather to any other baby elephant, and they jumped off the tower, they would be killed. I don't know exactly what you are trying to accomplish, but to me, if it convinces people that they have actually seen the impossible accomplished, instead of a clever simulation of it whose methods are unknown, then it is a lie, and to foist that on people is more than unkind, and arrogant. Like I said, I really don't understand your goals and methods, and would be helped a lot more by hearing you talk about your actual methods, intent, and description of what it looks like to the spectator you are working for. Your questions and extremely vague descriptions leave everyone here frustrated, I believe. I would love to hear from anyone on this board who thinks they understand what you are doing when you do Your Magic, because I have paid attention for some time now to your posts, and really have never had much of a clue what you are actually doing. I cannot really evaluate your ideas in terms of my theory, because I don't know what you are talking about. You write elegantly, why not describe what your work looks like from the point of view of someone whom you have helped. Write it objectively as to what was ssen and heard, and also describe what kind of thoughts he would be having as it is happening, and what thoughts and changes he might carry away from the experience. This would really make these discussions much more concrete and less hazy and amorphous. BTW, I think you misunderstand my work. I strive first to entertain, but so did Shakespeare. The dilemma itself is the main message, and the goal of my work. But in the process, I want to create a fascinating, memorable character that is real and believable to people, and to conjure up questions and ideas about power, about what someone of real powers might look like, and how they behave. I think the answers I have to these questions are surprising and enlightening and thought-provoking. A magic show can be very much a theatrical experience. But if we are artists, we are magicians first. The magic must be the center of the art, and the theatrical elements must serve the magic. Only after the needs of the magic have been met can we turn to the theatrical elements. If magic is just a method or an occasion for delivering some other message, in my opinion it slips from art to propaganda. |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
It appears that our difference lie not in the various defintiosn of magic, but in the concepts of "impossible." Brad has just started a new thread to explore that concept, If that truns out to be too clinical, I'll happily start another based on differences between what macicians consider impossibel and what magicians pretend at.
just as the intention of this thread is about the difference of how spectaors view magic and how magicians view it. but, one point of clarity. I have never claimed that what I have done in performance magic is an actaul demonstration of the impossible, nor that I have ever claimed to be doing the impossible. I pretend at it -- just like any other magician. The difference is that by using ma magic effect as allegory I can cause another person to question some other part of their life that thye personally consider impossible. Bruger above suggests that the magci you do has the same affect even if that is not your intention. I believe I understand "your work" very well, Whit. -- applaud it. I readily recommend your postings to any magician who desires to perform as you do, for the audiences you desire to attract and for the theatrical settings you embrace. But, your efforts and focus do not define the universe of magic, performance and otherwise. Perhaps embracing another view of performance magci si "impossible" for you. Certainly, you wave the "Our Magic" banner on whatever playing field is offered on a thread -- even if it is irrelivant to the discussion. Now you ask that I explain my views in a new way using my writing skills. I have posted dozens of stories, effect descriptions and articles that do just that -- and you never respond to any of them. Why not deal with what is already available by way of description? I am not rying to teach nay new way of approaching magic or impossible of way of living, but am offering my experiences with performance magic so that those interested can extract what they may as part of their own search for "their magic." I don't have to prove anyhting nor justify anything -- any more than you have to explain why you chose to present one particular effect rather than another in your show. But, you have asked, so I wrote this in the wee hours this morning. An example of a story I might tell a business owner. You can imagine where the magic tricks fit in -- or not. ................................................... A stone rested between the gnarled roots of a wizened tree in a garden caressed by a feckless breeze. A leaf chanced to flutter down, drift to and fro, and settle on the grass. Imaging the conversation ... “I wish that I could fly,” mumbled Stoney. “Whatever for?” queried Leif. “It’s not possible for me to fly,” ignored Stoney. “Sounds like you are set in that belief,” chuckled the Leaf at his little joke. “Easy for you to speak of loftier things,” whimpered the Stone. “You are free and capable of wondrous things.” “Yeah, right,” corrected Leif. “This breeze is from passing cars and rising heat from that ugly parking lot where there used to be a bush that gave leaves security with roots and all. I ask again, why do you wish to fly?” Stoney was silent for awhile. “I want to know things first hand rather than be limited to the opinions of passers-by. You see many things that I cannot and might choose what to believe and what is certain.” Now he chuckled and added, “Cast in stone.” “Then you do not really wish to fly – just to be somewhere other than here and now,” mused Leif. “No,” whispered Stoney. “I just want the chance to dream different dreams, to have other possibilities and opportunities.” “’Other possibilities’ is different from ‘not possible.” “Maybe flight is an illusion and imagination the reality,” smiled Stoney. The waving branches alternately hid and revealed the stone and leaf to students wandering by. Some smiled at the boy snoozing in careless abandon. Others scowled at the flagrant irresponsibility and hurried off to class. Later, the young man rose, reached down and retrieved the wayward notebook leaf. He scanned the scribbled notes and chose to return it to his pile rather than crumple it and toss it into the trash. As he ambled off the polished stone in his belt buckle preceded his adventure and was admired by all who saw it glittering in the sun.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
I imagine these must be the effects of a magic mushroom.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts |
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On 2011-08-07 07:47, funsway wrote: That is very helpful, Ken. Thank you. So, what is the role of the magic trick in the telling of this story? What does the trick add, and is it the fable that is important, or the trick? Is the trick meant to be a sort of "music video" to accompany the story, or does the impact of the trick make the story more meaningful? Why would the nature of this performance vary the way the dilemma is constructed? |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
All of those scenarios are possible. Perhaps you have just done something and the client asks, "are you a magician?" The story could be a transition from "thought impossible" to "changing perspective about the situation." It's all about "attention and retention." It is also possible to accentuate the message of the story by having the "leaf" change into a piece of paper, or a dull stone into a beautiful one.
Most often I would tell such a story (or one modified to be closer to their actual situation) as a lead into using some "trick" in their business to solve a problem. The story prompts the use of the word "magic" in their minds. By then showing an actual magic effect I can say, "I can pretend to accomplish the impossible. It's amazing, but just a trick. Now, would you like to see how your problems can vanish as easily. Ar eyou redy to learn some business tricks?" I rarely had a planned format or agenda -- just an endless supply of stories (allegory) and simple magic effects (allegory) to apply as needed. I never used the word "magic" or "magician," but always made sure they knew that what had occured was a trick, i.e. a controlled result rather than chance -- just what they want in their business. In this "non-theatrical" setting a story and a magic effect can serve the same purpose. The value of your Dilemma thinking has been to assist in clarifying for me what occured in review. In training other salesmen I have used the word "dilemma" to decribe what transpires in the shift of perspective for the business owner. This is onviously not "The Dilemma" as you are describing, bu the "horns" can be the same or similar. Your new language of maximizing "magic" (Don't know) and minimizing "impossible" (can't be done)is insightful and helpful to me. The difference is that I want to minimize (make a joke of) "I don't know how" and maximize "I can do." When the owner later calls this "magic" I don't disagree -- knowing that they are not confused at all between any trick I did and what happened in their life.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts |
Well, it seems to me that your work fits squarely into the dilemma theory.
The Theater of the Dilemma describes the circle within the Theater of the Impossible in which the idea is to create a perfect, convincing demonstration of the impossible without letting the spectators fall into belief, knocking the performer into the realm of charlatanry. There are many degrees of the dilemma. The closer we are to theater and story-telling the softer the dilemma; the closer we are to charlatanry, the harder the dilemma. A magic show can mix all sorts of these variations of the dilemma into the same show, and can add music, story, song and dance--whatever--but the primary goal is to create a dilemma of some kind, to give the audience some kind of experience of the impossible. As we move out of the circle of the Theater of the Dillema, and into the larger sphere of the Theater of the Impossible, our goal changes from creating an experience of the impossible to delivering a message or telling a story. Now the impossible is just a theme of a story or a special effect to illustrate the story, or a transitional device. The artist wants to get across some message, change someone's point of view, instruct, edify, or enlighten. This would include most story magic, bizarre magic, Gospel magic, anti-drug/pro=nutrition/safety--whatever. The point is that the dilemma isn't what is important, and shouldn't interfere with getting the message across. The rules of theater should trump the rules for creating a strong dilemma. The dilemma should first be sublimated to the needs of the message or story, and only then can the "needs of the magic" be satisfied. For example, when making a point to children about safety, you don't want to structure the magic to be so powerful that they don't hear the message, but instead just remember and talk about the amazing trick. You don't want a guillotine effect in a production of Tale of Two Cities that is so believable people are shocked and knocked out of the story. You have to find ways to keep Peter Pan's flying from overwhelming the story, or breaking hte audience's imaginary participation in the story. Lowering the power of the dilemma is necessary in order to accomplish the artist's primary goal of delivering a life-changing message, or a story. in the much more circumscribed Theater of the Dilemma, any story, message, music, or theatrical elements must be sublimated to the needs of the dilemma. The point is to give an expericence of the Impossible. The artist wants to put the spectator into the story he has created for them, and give them the convincing experience of the impossible. This is a complete artform in itself, regardless of it limitations. It is a peculiar little art. Within its limitations, it is important and wonderful. The Theater of the Impossible contains all forms of theatrical presentations of the impossible--including the real. Peter Pan, Twilight Zone, Harry Potter, Wizard of Oz, Mary Poppins, Alien, are all part of the Theater of the Impossible, and so are strong men, stage psychics, psychic healers, Mirin Dajo, side show and everything else. In the work you do, you start with what you want to accomplish and choose the tools and methods you need to do that. If you want to do "Our Magic" then you are in the Theater of the Dilemma. As long as there is any attempt to prove the impossible has actually happened, even if that is not the point, you are still in the Theater of the Dilemma. When there is no attempt to prove anything at all, when magic is used simply as a special effect or transitional device, you are outside the Theater of the Dilemma, and simply in the larger world of theater--in that part of the theater that deals with themes of the impossible. Magic is just one theme that can be explored in the Theater of the Impossible or within its smaller circle Theater of the Dilemma. The theme could be impossible science, impossible knowledge, alien technology, future technology and time travel, magic, necromancy, fortune telling, ESP, clairvoyance, etc., etc., etc. Does that help, Ken? None of these approaches are necessarily better or more important or more artistic than another. The important question is whether the artist accomplished the goal he set out to accomplish. I am a proponent of Theater of the Dilemma. This is the world of Maskelyne and Devant, and all my heros. I have many artistic goals in my work, but it is centered on creating a story for the spectator to carry away about his remarkable experience of the impossible--"I met this interesting character named Pop and he borrowed my ring and..." The dilemma makes that experience unforgettable. Everything I do is centered around creating the most convincing and stunning experience of the Impossible I can, and give them the tools to defend their story, and the enthusiasm and excitement to make them want to tell the story as much as possible--preferably to the point they lie about it and believe the lie. My other artistic goals must all be sublimated and called into service for this primary task. This pure magic, magic for its own sake. That is my chosen form. There is nothing wrong with other approaches to the dilemma, it just isn't my thing. I like magic for it's own sake. It is a small but important and valuable art. What you do may be a much greater and higher calling, and may do much more good in the world than my silly entertainment, but that doesn't bother me at all. I am content to be able to create a magical experience for my audience. If that is all I accomplish I will be happy. If I accomplish more, that would make me happier still. But I want to work within my little artform--I don't want to preach, mold, teach, inform, enslave, misinform, cheat, steal from, or save anyone. |
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts |
What I want to do is share my love for magic with my audience.
To look within myself and find what makes the experience of magic so wonderful to me, what I think about the nature of performance magic, what I think about what a person of power would look and act like, in fact, everything I have loved and thought about this peculiar little art since I was nine. I want to create an interesting and indelible fantastic character--something as memorable as Professor Marvel, Dr. Who, Mary Poppins, Captain Nemo or Peter Pan--a character with a complete backstory, and believable and convincing presentation. If I can get them to think, even for an instant that the character might be real, I will be extremely happy. I don't want to play a character like an actor, I want to be a character like a con man. The fun is that the character is unbelievable, fantastic, impossible. So they know I am not what I present myself as. They know there is someone else pulling the strings, but they want to talk to the dummy. They want to believe they've met someone really magical. How do you know Dr. Who is not some deranged nutcase escaped from an asylum, instead of the Time Lord from Gallifrey? A little ride in the Tardis always helps... To me, magic is an art that gives expression to who I am and what I think. It is a way to share my loves, thoughts and interests with others. To give them a sense of who the artist is, and what he loves, and how he behaves to them. McComb told me that magic is "just an excuse for a gentleman to take the stage..." and I think that is true. That gentleman or lady that mounts the stage will be a unique and wonderful character, that will show them what it means to be a gentleman or lady, and show them how it's done. |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
Great stuff, Whit -- and I think thee.
Now I can use your words to explain the relevance of The Dilemma rather then attempt my own There is no "higher calling" than being true to who you are, and we should celebrate the differences one diffence you did not mention is that using The Dilemma as Tgheater allows for prior scripting and completw orchestration (Stronger magic??) while performance magic for purposes other than entertaiment often require spontaneity and flexibility to the needs of the particult setting and audience. This requires listeng skills and other skill sets rarely found in magic books. The beauty of many classic effects learned in such books is the infinate variety of stories that can be told -- made relevant to the here and now and audience. Thus, I agree that understanding of The Dilemma can be useful/essential to performance in the Theater of Impossible -- even if the goal is to mask its existance. I hope the words you posted above find their way into your book -- some of them will certainly be in mine.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Stellan Special user Sweden 580 Posts |
I don't know Ken. My experiences with the kind of story you suggest combined with magic is that they suck. At least in my hands. It would be illuminative to see you perform storytelling magic.
Can anyone here imagine themself telling that story with some magic? I am afraid it would turn out lame for most of us. I have experimented a lot with storytelling and magic and it is indeed a difficult art that I would like to know more about. I have only a few good routines with stories that I can say really works. The problem is, as Whit says, the story has to be integrated into the dilemma in some way and the story must serve the magic. If you put an effect to your story it is more that the magic serves the story. I have never found that working out. Then there is the problem with inflicting a kind of message on the spectators. It will often appear as presumptious.
"There is no reality, only perception."
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
As noted, the magic effect normally proceed or follow the story, the magical impact of the story seues into the effect, or the other way around. This story is just an example of how a person's perspective can change through allegory rather than direct instruction. Almost alwasy the story was constructed "on the fly" specifically for a client with some elements of their own business included or suggested.
While I have used magci effects with more than 40,000 business owners, the opportunity fror combining a story and magci effect only happened maybe 20,000 times. SUccess is difficult to measre except that in ALL cases the owner chnaged their perception about some problem they were facing and were willing to look at an alternative solution. Maybe "lame" is what works since it allows the owner to take credit for their own brilliance. Yes, your use of words like "inflict," "suck," "afraid" suggests you could never have the presence or trust to pull this off. This requires complete respect for the business owner and his problems and his particular view of the impossible. I fail to see how you could have any experience with a "story like this" since they only occur in a dyadic situation. Now, the real issue is that experience with performance magic of the Dilemma type conditioned and prepared me to do presentations of the "Interactive" type. Your appraisal is wrong -- from the cleint's point of view, the story and the tricky effect are both illustrations of the perceived impossible being overcome. One does not support the other -- they compliment each other. Someday you may see me perform storytelling magic, or just magic effects -- but you will never see Interactive Magic unless you are a person in trouble who can convince me it is worth my time. The price is absolute candor and honesty. Your first line says it all "You don't know."
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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