The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Matt Damon on Teachers (his mom is one) (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8 [Next]
critter
View Profile
Inner circle
Spokane, WA
2549 Posts

Profile of critter
By the way, I ran into one of my old Algebra teachers at Costco last night and tried to hug her per Jeff's request. Somebody owes me bail money.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
LobowolfXXX
View Profile
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1189 Posts

Profile of LobowolfXXX
Quote:
On 2011-08-04 11:41, stoneunhinged wrote:
I don't have a problem with getting rid of bad teachers, but I'd probably get red-faced and ready for fisticuffs about the definition of "bad". I learned quite a bit from the worst teachers I ever had. Should they have been fired? I learned from them, didn't I?

That brings me back to punks. IMHO, the worst problem in education to day is that kids don't learn soon enough that the burden is on them to learn, not on the teacher to somehow poor wisdom into their little punky heads like beer through a funnel at Spring Break.


Concur. One of the main advantages that private schools have is the ability to much more readily get rid of (or not accept) those students that all but destroy the learning environment for students who want to learn.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
critter
View Profile
Inner circle
Spokane, WA
2549 Posts

Profile of critter
In my experience, public schools will just send those kids (and plenty who aren't like that) to alternative schools.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
Magnus Eisengrim
View Profile
Inner circle
Sulla placed heads on
1064 Posts

Profile of Magnus Eisengrim
Quote:
On 2011-08-04 11:38, stoneunhinged wrote:
Regarding class size: I've taught classes ranging from three to 750. Depending on what's being taught, class size ain't all that relevant.

At the university level, that is. Smile

In the war zone of K-12, three or four ornery, mischievous, demoralized, unmotivated punks can change the tone of a classroom.

But is that really a problem of class size? Or of punks in the classroom?


Despite everyone's best attempts, no researcher has ever found a convincing link between class size and academic achievement. I am not aware of any systematic studies of other educational outcomes as a function of class size (e.g. behavior, later problems with the law, etc.)

That said, practicing teachers are mostly convinced that there is a natural break point in the classroom where an orderly class becomes much more difficult to maintain. In high school I am convinced (from experience, not research) that the real issue is the physical size and layout of the room. Schools are simply built to comfortably hold 30 students in a classroom; more than that is just unpleasant for everybody.

Finally, in the current climate of inclusion, we often have children with special needs in classrooms, especially in the primary grades. This can change the dynamic in a number of ways. First, sometimes these students require more teacher time than "regular" students do, putting pressure on the number of students that can comfortably be taught by one person. Second, some special needs students require aides; this puts pressure on the physical space capacity of the room.

Like all problems that matter, there do not appear to be simple answers to the question of class size.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
stoneunhinged
View Profile
Inner circle
3079 Posts

Profile of stoneunhinged
Quote:
On 2011-08-04 12:15, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:

In high school I am convinced (from experience, not research) that the real issue is the physical size and layout of the room. Schools are simply built to comfortably hold 30 students in a classroom; more than that is just unpleasant for everybody.


An excellent point. Last semester my phonetics/phonology class had 78 students in a classroom meant for something like 45. It was high stress for all of us.

But again...university level. Can you imagine Critter's high school algebra teacher dealing with such conditions?

Too bad she doesn't like hugs.
critter
View Profile
Inner circle
Spokane, WA
2549 Posts

Profile of critter
I have one current example for classroom size in a University setting. Not scientific, just a single example.
In my summer research class we only had six students and he said our average test scores were the highest he's ever had.
So in this case the smaller class size appears to be correlated to better performance.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
thorndyke
View Profile
Regular user
Canada
147 Posts

Profile of thorndyke
Stoneuhinged, you are not the only man out there to have fallen in love with a lesbian.
EsnRedshirt
View Profile
Special user
Newark, CA
893 Posts

Profile of EsnRedshirt
I remember way back when I was in 6th grade, my teacher (who was a very awesome teacher- one of my favorites) was writing to the newspaper to complain about class size, because he couldn't spend enough time with each of the students to help them in the ways they needed. He had one of the largest classes in the school at that time, too- 36 students. This was in the early to mid 80's. Apparently it's only gotten worse.

Quote:
On 2011-08-04 11:56, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-08-04 11:41, stoneunhinged wrote:
I don't have a problem with getting rid of bad teachers, but I'd probably get red-faced and ready for fisticuffs about the definition of "bad". I learned quite a bit from the worst teachers I ever had. Should they have been fired? I learned from them, didn't I?

That brings me back to punks. IMHO, the worst problem in education to day is that kids don't learn soon enough that the burden is on them to learn, not on the teacher to somehow poor wisdom into their little punky heads like beer through a funnel at Spring Break.


Concur. One of the main advantages that private schools have is the ability to much more readily get rid of (or not accept) those students that all but destroy the learning environment for students who want to learn.
The disadvantage is, for disadvantaged kids, private school may not be an option. They'll end up going to a public school along with the trouble-makers who couldn't get in to private schools. Why deprive them of a good education just because they're poor?

Ever hear the Blueberry story? I'll post a link- it's the first one I came across when I searched:
http://www.reachingheights.org/2011/03/t......usiness/
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.

* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt.
stoneunhinged
View Profile
Inner circle
3079 Posts

Profile of stoneunhinged
Quote:
On 2011-08-04 12:56, thorndyke wrote:
Stoneuhinged, you are not the only man out there to have fallen in love with a lesbian.


Well, it's the first time for me.

I think. Smile
stoneunhinged
View Profile
Inner circle
3079 Posts

Profile of stoneunhinged
Quote:
On 2011-08-04 12:58, EsnRedshirt wrote:


Ever hear the Blueberry story? I'll post a link- it's the first one I came across when I searched:
http://www.reachingheights.org/2011/03/t......usiness/


No, I hadn't heard it. Thanks for the link.
S2000magician
View Profile
Inner circle
Yorba Linda, CA
3469 Posts

Profile of S2000magician
Quote:
On 2011-08-02 16:11, stoneunhinged wrote:
. . . I make more money than I can spend.

I'll help you with that.
stoneunhinged
View Profile
Inner circle
3079 Posts

Profile of stoneunhinged
You know, if I lived in the States I'd take you up on that offer.
S2000magician
View Profile
Inner circle
Yorba Linda, CA
3469 Posts

Profile of S2000magician
Quote:
On 2011-08-02 18:06, stoneunhinged wrote:
. . . I'm really depressed tonight.
Have you considered falling in love with Mai-Ling?

It might bring you out of your depression.
Magnus Eisengrim
View Profile
Inner circle
Sulla placed heads on
1064 Posts

Profile of Magnus Eisengrim
Quote:
On 2011-08-04 13:17, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-08-02 16:11, stoneunhinged wrote:
. . . I make more money than I can spend.

I'll help you with that.


Of course, a man with horses could never have enough money. Might as well dig a hole in the back yard and shovel every dime you've got into it.

John (penniless father of a horsey-girl)
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
S2000magician
View Profile
Inner circle
Yorba Linda, CA
3469 Posts

Profile of S2000magician
Quote:
On 2011-08-04 14:29, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-08-04 13:17, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-08-02 16:11, stoneunhinged wrote:
. . . I make more money than I can spend.

I'll help you with that.

Of course, a man with horses could never have enough money. Might as well dig a hole in the back yard and shovel every dime you've got into it.

John (penniless father of a horsey-girl)

Amen.
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
4755 Posts

Profile of landmark
Quote:
On 2011-08-04 11:24, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Rather than ask what would incentivize an individual teacher who is already on the job, ask which would better incentivize better candidates to make the choice to become a teacher in the first place

And exactly how does tying job security to teachers' students' scores from extensive standardized testing incentivize better candidates?
How does pitting one teacher against another with merit pay schemes that de-incentivize the crucial collaboration needed among teachers at the K-12 level help?
And how does demonizing teaching as a profession incentivize good prospects to go into teaching?
And how does the removal of capricious firing and due process guarantees incentivize good nominees?
And how does the extensive use of alternative hiring procedures to hire teachers with little training other than a summer of student teaching produce good teacher nominees?

My son asked if he should go into teaching. He probably would have a lot to offer. Unlike say, ten years ago, I had to tell him, that unfortunately, it could be a mistake in the present climate.

John: I'm aware of the research that says class size does not make a difference and it's simply wrong as a generalization. It matters much less as the student gets older, but it matters greatly in the younger years, and for students who are low performers. The research is generally contradictory, but you can take a look at sites like http://www.classsizematters.org/ to look at some of the more positive benefits of class size reduction.

And of course, there are the millions of parents who are willing to pay a hefty premium to send their children to schools with small class sizes. Aside from the important matters of the amount of student attention that each teacher can give there is the matter of course choice. I know that in the HS I teach in we cannot offer a Calculus class, because there are not enough students to make up a class. OTOH, at one of the local private schools, a class of 8 students is sufficient to have such a class.

Finally if you think class size doesn't matter, let's do a little math. You probably want your child's teacher to check their homework each night. So suppose the teacher has, as the NYC Teacher contract allows, the union max of 34 students in each of her/his five HS classes. That means 170 HWs to grade. If s/he spends 3 minutes to grade each--'cause s/he's a lazy teacher-- that's 510 minutes a night of grading. That is, more than 8 hours a night in grading alone.

The problem is much less the getting rid of bad teachers, but the retention of the good ones. They get fed up with all the nonsense people and politicians who have never spent any time teaching in a public school try to foist on the public.
stoneunhinged
View Profile
Inner circle
3079 Posts

Profile of stoneunhinged
Quote:
On 2011-08-04 13:43, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-08-02 18:06, stoneunhinged wrote:
. . . I'm really depressed tonight.
Have you considered falling in love with Mai-Ling?

It might bring you out of your depression.


Good thought. Mai Ling...are you there?

She doesn't float around Göttingen, last I checked.

Mai Ling...where are you?
rockwall
View Profile
Special user
762 Posts

Profile of rockwall
Hey, I 'm just glad that Matt Damon, Landmark, and apparently several others here don't believe teachers are incentivized by money. I would think that means that we can quit whining about their low pay!
rockwall
View Profile
Special user
762 Posts

Profile of rockwall
Quote:
On 2011-08-04 15:03, landmark wrote:
...

John: I'm aware of the research that says class size does not make a difference and it's simply wrong as a generalization.

...



but, but, but .... how can you say that?!?!?! 97% of researchers believe it!!!
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
4755 Posts

Profile of landmark
No they don't. Read what I wrote.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Matt Damon on Teachers (his mom is one) (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.2 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL