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TStone V.I.P. Stockholm, Sweden 769 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-09-01 16:30, Chris wrote: You always seem to add a hyphen when you are quoting CardShark, even though he never has written it like that. Isn't that a tad dishonest? Quote:
On 2011-09-01 16:30, Chris wrote: I've read this argument several times now, and I don't get it. To me, it looks like a standard web graphic background, a close-up of a speaker grill - you can even see the foam sheet behind the grill in the graphic. I made a Google image search for "carbon nanosheets", and sure, with some imagination there is a vague resemblance: http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q="carbon+nanosheets" I also made a Google image search for "speaker grill", and that looks way more similar: http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q="speaker+grill" |
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Ustaad Inner circle Iindia - States 6157 Posts |
I would like to Once again quote Stucky's post:-
Quote:
On 2011-09-06 07:32, Stucky wrote: Before I take on the highlighted statement made in the above quote, I would like to say that, irrespective of the brand, there is no doubt about the type of compound used for application on playing cards which is no other than 'Clear Synthetic Liquid Rubber in an Aerosol Can'. Now coming to the highlighted statement made in the above quote:- The feel on the rubber coating will depend on a number of aspects/ factors. I will enumerate just a few. (a) Thickness of the coating. (b) Spraying distance between the Can & the Card. (c) Sweep direction & speed of the spray with relation to the position of the Card. (d) Surrounding atmospheric condition (mainly Temperature & humidity) at the time of spray. (e) Drying time allowed. Hence if one coats a number of cards using the same spray can, you will find that each card will give you a different feel. Let us assume (for the sake of assuming) that two cards have been treated exactly similar under the above given conditions, you will still find that the two cards don't feel the same. Also the feel will depend on the direction and pressure applied by the finger while moving over the rubber coated card(s). Thus the feel aspect doesn’t stands to logic. All that matters is what is the characteristic(s) of the compound which will help in creating/ providing the desired results. And, irrespective of the brand (whether it is Plasti Dip or Super Grip or any other brand/ make including the one used by Kenton Knepper), it is now very well known that it’s none other than 'Clear Synthetic Liquid Rubber in an Aerosol Can'. . . . and Plasti Dip is one good brand for the purpose. P.S. The Science Friction Ad states: "Science Friction is a new kind of nano based spray that is applied to playing cards." This, IMO is total nonsense.
MAGIC is a SECRET, without the SECRET there is no MAGIC.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke. |
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Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
You left out something, Ustaad - the possibility that the cards Stucky used had the 2 different compounds applied in the exact same manner (thickness, distance, drying time, etc...). Anyone wanting to make a real comparison would intentionally keep these factors similar.
Stucky, can you elaborate at all?
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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Ustaad Inner circle Iindia - States 6157 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-09-08 00:18, Chessmann wrote: My above reasoning/ logic & practical trials (using Plasti Dip) prove that a compound of such nature can never be applied in the exact same manner. They will differ from card to card even when using the same Spray Can. And a sensitive touch of the finger will feel the difference.
MAGIC is a SECRET, without the SECRET there is no MAGIC.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke. |
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Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
Then A-E that you listed above are invalid, and cannot be used for or against the argument.
Well, that takes us back to square one! I do think that, with repeated tests, it can be said that one feels different from the other - unfortunately, we have no context for this, unless Stucky or someone else can tell us HOW they feel different.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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Ustaad Inner circle Iindia - States 6157 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-09-08 00:28, Chessmann wrote: Try it out parctically and see it for yourself. Anyway - Who cares! P.S. One might like to read this again:- Quote: On 2011-09-08 00:05, Ustaad wrote:
MAGIC is a SECRET, without the SECRET there is no MAGIC.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke. |
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ABK-Magic Loyal user Germany 273 Posts |
Mmmmhhh... when I use SF, my cards feel all the same! Actually I almost cannot feel anything.
BE CREATIVE! BE UNIQUE!
www.balconyproductions.com |
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Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
Quote:
Try it out parctically and see it for yourself. It appears that you do! Don't get me wrong, I am interested, too! I've got PD on order. Ustaad, I'm assuming that you do not have SF, and really do not have a bssis to say that Stucky's observation is truly invalid (though you may, of course, be correct).
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-09-08 00:36, ABK-Magic wrote: Here is a possible point of comparison.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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Ustaad Inner circle Iindia - States 6157 Posts |
. . please continue with the hype on this exorbitantly priced (IMO) product.
Thank you.
MAGIC is a SECRET, without the SECRET there is no MAGIC.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke. |
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Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
Haven't seen actual hype on this product for some time!
I, too, pause at the cost, however.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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BlueOwl Regular user Dayton, Ohio 105 Posts |
Chris,
Why do you continue to disbelieve that his product can be enhanced with nano-technology? Many standard consumer items from underwear, nail polish, coatings, cleaners, and on and on, employ nano-tech. Here is a link to a list of nano-based products produced in Germany (the source country of SF): http://www.nanotechproject.org/inventori......germany/ I am not sure why some people believe nano-tech to be futuristic and exorbitantly priced? When I worked with Honda and Toyota a few years ago, we were already testing several nano-based coatings for cutting tools. Does SF employ nano-technology… I do not know. But it is certainly possible. ~ Nathan |
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Nicolino Inner circle 2893 Posts |
Can't find SF in your list....
(just kidding!)
The Mati Envelope
A brandnew peek device for the working mentalist! Chance's Token Tarot cards in a scenic piece of mystery..... |
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BlueOwl Regular user Dayton, Ohio 105 Posts |
That's because it's listed under Plasti Dip
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Nicolino Inner circle 2893 Posts |
*LOL*
The Mati Envelope
A brandnew peek device for the working mentalist! Chance's Token Tarot cards in a scenic piece of mystery..... |
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saysold1 Eternal Order Recovering Cafe addict with only 10794 Posts |
My guess is that SF is chemically related or similar to PD.
Kinda like my favorite Italian Illy Espresso is similar to Starbucks. Same? Nope. Can we PLEASE move on as the friggin tail is wagging the dog on this thread. My thorough review will be posted by tomorrow.
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of aerospace level quality, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
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Nicolino Inner circle 2893 Posts |
Alright, I'll shut up and listen!
The Mati Envelope
A brandnew peek device for the working mentalist! Chance's Token Tarot cards in a scenic piece of mystery..... |
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saysold1 Eternal Order Recovering Cafe addict with only 10794 Posts |
REVIEW OF: "Science Friction - The Revolutionary Fluid For Playing Cards"
ARTIST: Alexander Kolle PRODUCER: Card-Shark http://www.card-shark.de http://www.sciencefrictionspray.com RETAIL PRICE: $95.00 DIFFICULTY: Beginner to Intermediate INCLUDES: 11 ounce (400 ml) can of Science Friction spray, Leather bi-fold wallet, 3.5 hour training DVD including 7 routines, 3 cardboard spray templates, small sample set of gaff cards (parlour and poker size), full set of the new "Phoenix Gaff Starter Kit" (apparently included with pre-orders) 10 x blank face cards with red Phoenix back 10 x blank face cards with blue Phoenix back 10 x double backed cards with red Phoenix backs on both sides 10 x double backed cards with blue Phoenix backs on both sides 10 x double backed cards with red and blue Phoenix backs on each side 1 x Phoenix Joker with blank back 1 x Ace of Spades with blank back 1 x Ace of Hearts with blank back 1 x Ace of Clubs with blank back 1 x Ace of Diamonds with blank back Alright folks, fasten your seat belts and here is my take on Science Friction (SF). I ordered SF at the end of July, and I was sent an early (pre-release) copy of the set about 10 days ago. As others have said already, the packaging of this "kit" is simply exceptional - easily one of the most professionally packaged magic products ever. This is not some kit of stuff in a plastic zip lock bag, and you know from seeing it that what is inside is probably something special. As we all know, there has been much conjecture, speculation, accusations, and outright flaming about precisely what SF is all about and whether it is worth the $95 price of admission. The multiple threads and heated discussions here on the Café... and accusations by some that SF is simply some cheap "knock-off" of other kinds of cheaper and readily available sprays (namely Plasti-Dip). So let me make it crystal clear that this review is SOLELY about the SF Package - and is not about other spray(s) of which I am not familiar or have not tried. I will NOT do a side by side comparison with other sprays, not will I be egged on by those who appear to have their own hidden agenda(s). My goal here is to evaluate SF in a non-biased way as an intermediate magician and a novice with card handling moves. The ad copy states that "Science Friction is a new kind of nano based spray that is applied to playing cards. When you think of sprays for playing cards, the first thing that comes to your mind is Rough & Smooth Spray or the Non-Permanent Adhesive Spray. Science Friction leaves all these concepts behind!!!" Let me fist state that I think SF is a VERY cool product, and indeed something quite new to the magic fraternity. It offers beginners and intermediate magicians an ability to cleanly handle playing cards in the sweetest possible way. The key concept (very key!) with SF is LESS is more when it comes to the use of the spray, and this idea is repeated by creator Alex Kolle throughout the 3.5 hour DVD. When I say less is more, I mean that you do not really want to be spraying entire playing cards top to bottom like you would with rough and smooth (Krylon or Testors). With SF you receive a number of excellent cardboard templates - these templates open in different ways, allowing playing cards to be sprayed with SF in multiple ways: Far left side, far right sides, top, bottom, and middle sections. The templates are basically card sized "envelopes" that allow a single card to be inserted and slid in, pre-cut flaps opened (they open on the front and back), and then sprayed LIGHTLY from a 3-5 inches away. The DVD instructions go into great detail about the method of spraying, and how to use the templates. The spray itself does have a very strong odor, and obviously it is important to spray either outside or in a very well ventilated area. The spray itself dries extremely fast (much faster than R&S) and it is essentially ready to rock and roll in just 3-4 minutes maximum. Compared to R&S this is very fast indeed. The treatment can be felt to the touch certainly, but it is a bit less obvious and a spectator will never notice it - especially since only a small portion of a card is treated and not the entire card. Once applied there is zero smell on the card. Only the very lightest and quickest dusting of spray is need, and only one coat is generally required to attain the "friction." The coating is clear, but it may be seen if the card is turned to an angle although it is unlikely any spectator will ever see it and it is no more noticeable than a coating of R&S. Once applied to (for example) the middles of a card (front and back, or just one side), the card suddenly attains some very lovely qualities. If pressure is applied lightly to the middle (or treated areas) with your thumb in pushing a card off, then multiple cards that are in contact with the SF area will move cleanly and without effort. In an Ambitious Card routine, for example, if a signed card is placed using a M*rl* T**t then do hard DL are needed as the cards basically now do all the work. Very sweet! The reason that less is more is simply this - when using SF and the included templates, it now allows a magician the freedom to push the cards from the non-treated areas of a card allowing the card to slide cleanly with no adhesion (or friction). This new capability allows for some mind blowing magic - especially for guys like me that are not experts at the card table by any stretch. I know some expert cards guys will frown upon using a spray like this - and as matter of fact a few of the expert card guys in my SAM club chided me this past week and said that "we all need to learn the basics and get dependent on a gimmick that may not always work correctly or could get lost, etc." I dunno, I have to disagree here a bit - I can do a decent DL, turnover and some of the other basic moves sure... but to me using SF is now like the difference in driving a stick shift car for years and suddenly trying out a smooth automatic. Most people I know prefer the automatic. Now I happen to drive a stick shift car and I love it - sure, it gives me all the feedback and control of the engine on the road and I feel like I am "one" with my car and have a connection to it. However, I predict Science Friction is about to shake things up in the magic world for sure as it is so friggin *easy* to use and allows a guy like me to be creative and concentrate on the routine rather than the "moves." If you can get from point A to point B with less work - what is wrong with that? The ad copy call this a revolutionary product, but as I have said before I feel it is more "evolutionary" as it it a relative to other methods. For me an entire new world of effects doors have just opened because of SF - the possibilities are literally endless. The use of roughing fluid on playing cards was apparently an innovation of gamblers for locating the aces, and it's principal use in magic was developed by the late Ralph W. Hull in the 1930's. SF in my view does not (and should not) ever replace R&S, which I think will always be superior for some applications (namely ID, BW, etc). Where SF is superior is in using it sparingly and invisibly to control cards using only a small number of treated cards - typically only 1-3 cards. Once coated on a card, the spray can be easily removed by running your thumbs over the card and rolling the material off. The cards (for me) once coated seem to be durable and I have not yet had to re-coat them. I could imagine after using the gaffed cards repeatedly at some gigs it might be advisable to re-treat the cards, but in normal use you could probably get 100+ uses before a quick re-dusting of the spray area may be needed. There is enough SF spray in that can to treat literally hundreds if not 1000+ cards - this will undoubtedly last a long long time. Now let me get into the DVD and the routines supplied: Let me just state that the production values of this 3.5 hour DVD are simply OUTSTANDING. A great deal of time and $$$ + a strong dose of passion and creativity has gone into this. The front of the DVD is labelled VOL 1. and it was also mentioned by Alex Kolle that there will be future DVD's with even more routines than the 7 that are included with this initial release. The menus are all logical, with a separation of the various performances and explanations. In addition, all of the explanations also include an OTS (over the shoulder) teaching view of each performance with birds-eye views of the moves, with no words and thankfully with no cutaway shots. This is a smart and very helpful addition! The DVD is themed and takes place in a college setting, with Alex Kolle in front of a blackboard as if doing a magic lecture. Every single one of the effects is explained in front of the blackboard, and the areas that need to be sprayed to achieve a given effect are clearly shown up on the board. The graphics are VERY high tech with an animated Gecko acting as the mascot (I don't they know about Geico in Germany). The audio is very good in most cases, although the repetition of the them music in the background was at a slightly too high setting for my taste - not grating, but it could have been lower. The production quality and menus are easily on par with anything that Theory 11 or Alakazam has put out. Some of the close up video zooms do lose some focus at times, but over all I would give the video quality an 8 out of 10, the production quality a 9.5, and the audio a 7. Here are the effects included - and most of them are superb: 1) AMBITIOUS CARD 2) AMBITIOUS CARD COLORBLIND (Deck changes colors at the end) 3) ONE CARD COLLECTOR (One of the best effects - really nice) 4) SANDWICH SQUARED 5) INVISIBLE PALM 6) FRICTION TRANSPOSITION 7) FRICTION MONTE (Best effect - an amazing packet effect) The back of the DVD shows 6 effects and says that there are 2 bonus effects included, but my guess is that the DVD packaging was printed early as there are 7 great effects on the DVD with no bonuses (after 3.5 hours you will have a great deal of material to enjoy!). Most of the effects on the DVD do not require massive card techniques. My overall favorite is the Friction Monte, which is quite possibly one of the cleanest ways to do a Monte effect with no moves. There is a dump needed at the end requiring palming a card but the moves are well justifies by Alex and this one effect to me is just delicious. The Sandwich Squared effect is also a winner and looks great visually, but it does require some moves that are more advanced and will take me some practice to master. I am already doing the Ambitious Card effect and it is beyond easy. The one Card Collector is probably my 2nd favorite effect - it requires no hard moves, and it is kind of like a sandwich effect in a spread deck of cards. The final reveal here is a stunner. The included leather bi-fold card wallet has about 8-10 pockets and is a great way to hold your treated SF cards. Remember I said before that "less is more?" Well the genius with Science Friction is that by carrying a single deck of regular cards and the treated Gaffs in a wallet (labeled) a performer doing a gig could literally be carrying an entire show of varied effects in one breast pocket Now to the boogey man "nano" question? Is SF really a nano fluid? I haven't the foggiest idea as I am not a chemist, nor do I care. On the DVD Alex mentions more than once applying a "nano" amount of fluid to the cards - literally just some quick dustings. Is this what they meant by "nano?" I have no idea. But is this question really that relevant to whether SF is a great product? (which it is btw). I will leave those questions to the chemists out there, but I will take Alex on his word that SF was developed as something new. There is an introduction to the spray segment on the DVD by Alex which (as Luke mentioned already) runs WAY too long. It goes over some helpful stuff (how to apply the spray and use the templates) but it gets bogged down with too much detail on the advantages of SF over R&S vs 3M spray. Save yourself some time and read 'em here... Here are some of the blackboard points: SF: No mated cards needed (only one card treated) - I agree Fast Drying - I agree Removable - I agree No Smell - I agree but after drying Smoother - Yes One Gimmick (Sure, but repetitive) More possibilities (yes) Constant grip (yes when slight pressure applied No noise (true - no gritty sounds) Lasts longer (time will tell - R&S lasts quite awhile) In the adverts for SF there was the following statement: "Prepared Cards can be Handled by Spectator, the Preparation stays Undetectable" I would disagree here - I could not see a spectator handling prepared cards with the exception of a sequence like the "Card Collector" effect where the spectator is asked to do the final card spread on the table - and (like R&S) the friction card(s) remain invisible. OVERALL RATING: 8.8 out of 10 In summary I think that SF is genuinely something new and quite exciting in the magic marketplace. You are not just buying a $95 can of spray, but rather a complete kit and new tool. I have already put some SF on some of my own existing effects which require a DL and I am really appreciating the "automatic" way that the cards are handled with it. The mistake many may make is thinking that they should treat entire cards with this. The genius here is in the ways Alex Kolle has developed small areas to be treated on certain cards which allow smooth and magical handlings which were heretofore impossible. Buying a can of SF or PD or whatever won't give you what you get with this exceptional SF kit. There is not a shred of doubt that Alex Kolle believes that this is a ground breaking product and has worked hard to put this whole project together. Overall I think most who buy this will find SF to be a powerful new tool in their arsenal. Some have and will complain about the cost - but to me the value of the DVD itself is easily worth at least $50+ (or half) the price of admission here. I realize that this review (finally) wont end the controversy but hopefully it will put to rest the fact that SF is not some pie in the sky piece of hype but a rock solid new product. BRETT
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of aerospace level quality, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
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saysold1 Eternal Order Recovering Cafe addict with only 10794 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-09-06 23:02, LukeBrady wrote: Here is Luke's review also... so you guys can read them together without all the crap in between lol
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of aerospace level quality, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
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Gaz Lawrence Inner circle 5991 Posts |
Fantastic review Brett . Would you say the friction ( if pressure is placed in the right area )is better than R/S or worse ? Also would you say the smoothness of release is easier then R/S ( if cards are spread in the non treated areas ) ? Thanks for your help and taking the time to write such a detailed review . Regards Gary
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