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Sean Giles Inner circle Cambridge/ UK 3517 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-08-22 14:24, mindpunisher wrote: If you are a decent person that cares about your fellow man, then of course there will be some instances where you (along with all decent and moral people) will know what's best for others. There are some things where it should be plainly obvious whats best for others. For instance, it's best if people don't go around killing each other. It's best if people don't go around punching each other. And it's best if people don't go around lying to vulnerable people just to get their money out of them. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Just to clarify something - the word "psychic" is NOT a synonym for "medium".
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Sean Giles Inner circle Cambridge/ UK 3517 Posts |
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On 2011-08-22 14:03, Paul Shirley wrote: It's not possible to prove a negative Paul. That's why these people are able to do what they do. |
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Paul Shirley Inner circle Melbourne, Australia 1206 Posts |
Hey Sean How are you mate?
Im not being funny... but what do you mean by "proving an negative"? |
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Paul Shirley Inner circle Melbourne, Australia 1206 Posts |
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On 2011-08-22 14:35, mastermindreader wrote: Thanks Bob.. my mistake. |
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Sean Giles Inner circle Cambridge/ UK 3517 Posts |
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On 2011-08-22 14:58, Paul Shirley wrote: Hey Paul. I'm good thanks. Hope you're well. Interesting convo.... what I mean is it's not possible to prove the non-existance of something. For example, I could say that there is a creator of all things and he is a giant yellow bear that appears only to me and no-one else. There would be no way for anyone to prove that the yellow bear doesn't exist and that I am lying. Try it yourself, try to think of a way to scientifically prove the yellow bear that created everything does not exist. It's a ridiculous example, I know, but it cannot be done. On the other hand though, it's me that is making an extraordinary claim and the onus sould be on me to prove that it's true. In my case I would be trying to prove a positive which usually can be done in a scientific manner. Therefore a positive can be proven but a negative cannot.... |
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-08-22 14:35, Sean Giles wrote: Do you know Sean your post above just personifies the very worst in magician mindset. A decent person who cares about his fellow man will realise that some people know whats best for them. The need to believe. So far I have not heard of any magician or mentalist giving all their fees away to charity. Of course I may be wrong but these shows are professional engagements. They do this for a living. And its easy money. Anyone with a modicum of knowledge can make gullible psychics look bad. It has to be the easiest gig in the world. Not only that it usually done in a way that potentially harms performers. This really is a sort umasked magician with "high moral" pretentious reasons when in actual fact its just another paid gig. Unles of course I am wrong and all fees are donated to a worthy charity? |
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Ben Harris V.I.P. The Land Down Under 2126 Posts |
"We don't need no education, we don't need no thought control"
Benny
+Inventor of the world famous Floating Match+
+Author: Machinations (Vanishing Inc, 2020)+ EVERYTHING BEN HARRIS |
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Decomposed Eternal Order High Desert 12059 Posts |
Pink who Ben?
Now now MP. Come on back over to the Sleepy section and I will buy you a cup. Decomp
ClICK HERE for HOW TO MAKE TRANSITION FROM MAGICIAN TO MOTIVATIONAL SPEAKER WORLD NEW BOOK!
Click here for NEW PROMO TRAILER! 90 seconds of pure laughs without a standing ovation! Click here for Magicians Austin Mentalist Performance https://www.facebook.com/AustinMagicians https://www.speakermatch.com/profile/gianicano/ Magicians Company Entertainers in Dallas, TX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8sHW_zVuSc https://about.me/motivationalpublicspeaker |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
My point was not that mediums are always con artists, it was about the needs of the person experiencing the loss...if all they need to hear is "i'm ok, I'm not in pain - and thanks for doing so much for me...and I love you...i want you to live your life and take pleasure in it again...". Is that such a bad message? and maybe if those people NEED to hear that, if the outcome is a positive one and they can now move on...then, I just wanted to know what others thought, that's all...
the bigger point for me is, I understand that we should protect vunerable people against real charlatans that genuinely don't care about anything except the money...i suppose I could ask for evidence for all mediums - but that would mean testing every single one wouldnt it? or at least more than 50%? there's a concept in therapy (certain kinds) where you can tell a tale as it were, "i am reminded of an ex-client of mine who did...". And you help your current client by shifting their perception from the tale, to the present, and their problem...whether that ex-client ever existed, is an entirely different matter...yet, if your current client changes their behaviour and feelings, and starts to make a positive change in their life because you (basically) lied to them...does it matter? or would you prefer them to just constantly have their life messed up? its a hard choice... again, everyone deserves to be listened to...i have an unber-skeptic friend, who said "people who go to a tarot reader in any way shape or form deserves to be sectioned...". I asked "really? even if its for fun?". "oh yes" was the reply. "i would seriously have them committed. They are idiots." again, what if that person had very bad experiences with a therapist? (i could provide proof of therapists sleeping with and taking money from their patients for example). What if that person tried all other things, and it didn't feel right? but they felt good about going to a tarot reader? And what if, heaven forfend, that the tarot reader was a decent person? I know..unlikely right? they're ALL evil apparently... but lets say one wasn't - to be heralded as a unicorn amongst readers, this person wants people to feel better...so what if the reader helped the sitter through their problem? not by providing solutions, but by providing reflections of a posibililty or present outcome? And they let the sitter talk, and enables them to examine possible outcomes/futures? isn't that a skill? isn't it the tarot reader's mindset, skill, knowledge and interpretation something positive too? or, are they evil and wicked? I would extremely silly and ill-informed talking about quantum mechanics, I know next to nothing about it, and have never been involved in the experiements...so I would hope you would all dance around me, ppulling at my hair and call me names if I stood up and told you all about what goes on in quantum mechanics wouldnt i? hmmm... @banachek - I'm glad people get to choose how to test their abilities alongside the JREF. I take it on that ABC show those people were also all happy with the gloves and the photocopies? as for me, I am neither pro nor anti many things, I do what I think is good, honest and decent and moral. and because of that I've given up on a lot. and I've also experienced some very beautiful and unique things in my life too... again, I repeat, everyone deserves to be listened to...how else can you understand something if you label EVERYTHING the same before truly examining it truthfully and with an even hand? all people who have killed others are evil - is that true? again, personally no...there's the army for starters... anyway - again, please remember - its not an attack on anyone's views, actions or anything else...just chewin' the fat, debating, talking about some interesting subjects and thoughts that this thread has puked up along the way...
I've asked to be banned
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Decomposed Eternal Order High Desert 12059 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-08-22 14:31, mindpunisher wrote: What is the truth soldier? Come on over for that cup MP.
ClICK HERE for HOW TO MAKE TRANSITION FROM MAGICIAN TO MOTIVATIONAL SPEAKER WORLD NEW BOOK!
Click here for NEW PROMO TRAILER! 90 seconds of pure laughs without a standing ovation! Click here for Magicians Austin Mentalist Performance https://www.facebook.com/AustinMagicians https://www.speakermatch.com/profile/gianicano/ Magicians Company Entertainers in Dallas, TX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8sHW_zVuSc https://about.me/motivationalpublicspeaker |
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Sean Giles Inner circle Cambridge/ UK 3517 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-08-22 16:09, mindpunisher wrote: You seem to miss the point. I don't think there is anything wrong with what magicians or mentalists do. Where did you get that idea? I've only ever referred to mediums of the Silvia Brown ilk. I love what we do. we entertain and get paid for it. It's brilliant. What's giving fees away to charity got to do with anything. I run a lot for different charities but I don't see any relevance. I'm not trying to educate anybody. This is a forum where people put forward their point of view for discussion. I do that because I enjoy discussing things and hearing different opinions. The fact that we disagree is what makes it interesting. Just the same as if we were friends sitting round a table together late at night and putting the world to rights. I just don't see why you have to get nasty and start with personal attacks. Surely you can get your point across without being rude. If we can't have friendly adult discussion then I'll be hitting the sack. It's late and I have to be up early... goodnight my friend, I do love the Café |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Rather than me ramble like I did - I think I can sum it best by saying "i hate specific mediums", colin fry in particular...he seems to want to prolong grief on his tv show, and he once got caught red handed blowing a spirit-trumpet (not a euphamism) on a tv show, mid seance...but I would never say "all mediums are just like colin fry". I have no evidence to support that.
And I have to admit too, to be fair, I actually know two people who have been to one of his shows, got a message and they never went back. But feel very happy for the experience and yes, moved on...they got a sense of closure and support from everyone around them afterwards. they haven't gone back because they have made their peace. there.
I've asked to be banned
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
Sean what I meant is in general magicians should perform magic not decide whats best for other people. Silvia Brown doesn't use any slieght of hand or mentalists techniques. She exposes herself with her rubbish predictions.Why on earth do we need men with shiney masks and with envelopes with living and dead people to point that out? And those stupid tests ????? Prove nothing only that those stupid psychics can't perform mentalism. Its not what they do in the "real" world anyway. Its all daft as a brush.
Those that believe or possibly have a NEED to believe will anyway. It's not up to you or me to decide whats best for others. However if you are going to do these gigs be HONEST its another income stream another paid gig not a mission to save the world. Those that make the tv programmes are also to it for the money. It's a commercial venture. Nothing more. Easy cheap dependable formula. Lets get real.... |
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Lord Of The Horses Inner circle 5406 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-08-22 17:04, mindpunisher wrote: Good point.
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
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Blueboy Regular user But I don't steal to fund my habit 200 Posts |
Quote:
Sean Sean I could'nt prove you were a liar, that's right. Therefore I would'nt call you one. I would just say I was'nt convinced. Calling every Spirit Medium a liar is rude, and it is also knocking the religion of others, as Spiritualism is a Religion. |
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Decomposed Eternal Order High Desert 12059 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-08-22 17:04, mindpunisher wrote: Yeah MP at about $700 a quick reading too (Sister Sylvia).
ClICK HERE for HOW TO MAKE TRANSITION FROM MAGICIAN TO MOTIVATIONAL SPEAKER WORLD NEW BOOK!
Click here for NEW PROMO TRAILER! 90 seconds of pure laughs without a standing ovation! Click here for Magicians Austin Mentalist Performance https://www.facebook.com/AustinMagicians https://www.speakermatch.com/profile/gianicano/ Magicians Company Entertainers in Dallas, TX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8sHW_zVuSc https://about.me/motivationalpublicspeaker |
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Paul Shirley Inner circle Melbourne, Australia 1206 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-08-22 17:04, mindpunisher wrote: Daft as a 'Basil' Brush in fact. Booooom! Boooooom! Nicely said M.P |
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Sean Giles Inner circle Cambridge/ UK 3517 Posts |
[quote]On 2011-08-22 19:25, Blueboy wrote:
Quote:
That's a little bit rich coming from you. Just read some of your previous posts calling people &£"£&"" idiots and disgusting. You can't have it both ways old mate Sean I cou |
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Blueboy Regular user But I don't steal to fund my habit 200 Posts |
Two wrongs don't make a right LOL
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