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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Santana calls cuts to Grammy Awards ‘ignorant’ and ‘racist’ (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Magnus Eisengrim
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Carlos Santana calls cuts to Grammy Awar......‘racist’

Mexican-born guitar superstar Carlos Santana has declared the decision by the National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences to slash the number of Grammy Awards it distributes from 109 to 78 to be racially motivated.

Among the 31 categories either collapsed together or eliminated entirely are Hawaiian, Native American and Cajun-Zydeco, which will all merge as regional roots, while contemporary and traditional blues are now just blues. Latin-music categories were especially hard-hit, going from seven categories to four, with Latin jazz dropped entirely.

“Why do they cut only this music? Why not other music?” asked Santana.

“I think they’re racist. Period. I do. First of all, we have so many categories of country and western. Country and western people have seven to nine to 10 (awards) shows a year, and you seldom see Negroes or Latin people. You can’t eliminate black gospel music or Hawaiian music or American Indian music or Latin jazz music, because all this music represents what the United States is: a social experiment.

“They didn’t even tell other members, only certain people voted, overnight. A lot of people didn’t know this had passed. Quincy Jones didn’t know, Herbie Hancock didn’t know.”

The sweeping changes were announced by NARAS CEO Neil Portnow on April 6.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
LobowolfXXX
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They hate whitey, too. They got rid of Best Rock Instrumental Performance and Best Rock Performance by a Duo or Group with Vocals, and they consolidated Best Hard Rock and Best Metal into a single award.

I thought Carlos was a one-issue candidate. It's nice to see him break away from his strong pro-illegal-immigration stance and address other issues.

Hell of a guitarist, though.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
seadog93
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I'm too ignorant of the grammies to know what to think (or to really think about it at all), but merging Hawaiian, Native American and Cajun-Zydeco into one category that presumably includes other forms of music as well seems insane.
I didn't realize these were addressed by the grammies (I thought it was only pop) but they are so different as to be crazy.

Modern and traditional blues are very different, they shouldn't be merged either.
BTW, I'm learning finger picking country blues guitar... anyone else do this?
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Magnus Eisengrim
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The mistake everyone keeps making is in thinking that awards programs exist to reward artistry. They do not,never have, and never will. The industry (music, film, TV, etc.) gives itself awards to generate publicity. Grammies have no function other than to sell records and concert tickets.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
landmark
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Quote:
On 2011-08-18 13:50, LobowolfXXX wrote:
They hate whitey, too. They got rid of Best Rock Instrumental Performance and Best Rock Performance by a Duo or Group with Vocals, and they consolidated Best Hard Rock and Best Metal into a single award.

I thought Carlos was a one-issue candidate. It's nice to see him break away from his strong pro-illegal-immigration stance and address other issues.

Hell of a guitarist, though.

Well I'll put in a Lobo distinction here.
Because a few "white" awards were consolidated doesn't necessarily mean that the other awards weren't cut because of racism. Anymore than the harassment of some legal white immigrants means that the harassment of legal non-whites isn't because of racism.

Agreed about the guitar playing though.
Marlin1894
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Definately racist.
balducci
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Quote:
On 2011-08-18 14:50, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:

The mistake everyone keeps making is in thinking that awards programs exist to reward artistry. They do not,never have, and never will. The industry (music, film, TV, etc.) gives itself awards to generate publicity. Grammies have no function other than to sell records and concert tickets.

I'm not sure that is an absolute truth.

But if it is, why would they consolidate categories in order to award FEWER awards and give certain genres even less attention than before?
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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This is definitely a topic that I will lose sleep over. Just thinking about this boggles the mind.

Hawaiian, Native American and Cajun-Zydeco were probbly my favorite catagories. Now they are gone merged into regional roots. This is serious stuff. Smile
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2011-08-18 15:19, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-08-18 13:50, LobowolfXXX wrote:
They hate whitey, too. They got rid of Best Rock Instrumental Performance and Best Rock Performance by a Duo or Group with Vocals, and they consolidated Best Hard Rock and Best Metal into a single award.

I thought Carlos was a one-issue candidate. It's nice to see him break away from his strong pro-illegal-immigration stance and address other issues.

Hell of a guitarist, though.

Well I'll put in a Lobo distinction here.
Because a few "white" awards were consolidated doesn't necessarily mean that the other awards weren't cut because of racism. Anymore than the harassment of some legal white immigrants means that the harassment of legal non-whites isn't because of racism.

Agreed about the guitar playing though.


It's a good distinction; the consolidation of any awards doesn't necessarily mean that the cause was racism. Did you cc Carlos on your post?

Of course, it's probably racist of him to suggest that certain types of music belong to certain races/ethnicities.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2011-08-18 15:55, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-08-18 14:50, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:

The mistake everyone keeps making is in thinking that awards programs exist to reward artistry. They do not,never have, and never will. The industry (music, film, TV, etc.) gives itself awards to generate publicity. Grammies have no function other than to sell records and concert tickets.

I'm not sure that is an absolute truth.

But if it is, why would they consolidate categories in order to award FEWER awards and give certain genres even less attention than before?


I admit that there may be spinoff consequences. But I maintain that by and large, entertainment industry awards are a marketing tool.

I don't see any reason that more (or fewer) awards necessarily lead to increased (or decreased) advertising benefit. What does matter is making the awards night entertaining, newsworthy and profitable. And I have little doubt that those are the considerations behind the decisions.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
landmark
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[quote]On 2011-08-18 17:16, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
Did you cc Carlos on your post?

Of course, it's probably racist of him to suggest that certain types of music belong to certain races/ethnicities.

Belong to certain races? Nowhere was that word used. How about has roots in, was originated by, and is mainly performed by certain races/ethnicities. Or will you cc Carlos and inform him how you've discovered that music has nothing to do with culture, race , or ethnicity?
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[quote]On 2011-08-18 19:56, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-08-18 17:16, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
Did you cc Carlos on your post?

Of course, it's probably racist of him to suggest that certain types of music belong to certain races/ethnicities.

Belong to certain races? Nowhere was that word used. How about has roots in, was originated by, and is mainly performed by certain races/ethnicities. Or will you cc Carlos and inform him how you've discovered that music has nothing to do with culture, race , or ethnicity?


Nope, he didn't say it; that's why I said that he suggested it. Of course, I was being tongue-in-cheek; the real point was my initial response, and your reply, and my re-reply. I won't pretend that the elimination of the 'white' categories is proof if you won't pretend it's not evidence.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2011-08-18 15:55, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-08-18 14:50, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:

The mistake everyone keeps making is in thinking that awards programs exist to reward artistry. They do not,never have, and never will. The industry (music, film, TV, etc.) gives itself awards to generate publicity. Grammies have no function other than to sell records and concert tickets.

I'm not sure that is an absolute truth.

But if it is, why would they consolidate categories in order to award FEWER awards and give certain genres even less attention than before?


Because they're "less important" since they don't generate the interest or ticket sales that the more mainstream genres do.
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Best New Artist 1990 anyone? Here is your hint, it rhymes. (And not "BUSTA"!)

Yea the Grammy is not as big a deal as it once was.
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LobowolfXXX
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You can go back further than the 90s to find out when it became a joke...Jethro Tull over Metallica for Best Hard Rock/Heavy Metal was NOT an auspicious debut for the category. I mean, Aqualung in '71, sure, but not Crest of a Knave.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
stoneunhinged
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Quote:
On 2011-08-19 01:27, LobowolfXXX wrote:
You can go back further than the 90s to find out when it became a joke...Jethro Tull over Metallica for Best Hard Rock/Heavy Metal was NOT an auspicious debut for the category. I mean, Aqualung in '71, sure, but not Crest of a Knave.


My jaw still hurts from hitting the floor on that one. What's funny is that only today do I learn that Crest of a Knave was the "cause" of the whole mess. Never heard it.
Magnus Eisengrim
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On 2011-08-19 01:27, LobowolfXXX wrote:
You can go back further than the 90s to find out when it became a joke...Jethro Tull over Metallica for Best Hard Rock/Heavy Metal was NOT an auspicious debut for the category. I mean, Aqualung in '71, sure, but not Crest of a Knave.


For those not in the know, Budapest is the best-known song from Crest of a Knave.


Do remember that the flute is a heavy, metal instrument.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
tommy
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It is all bent.

“Well, I think if you were to ask Donald Trump, it takes more than thinking to grow rich. You have to know the right friends; the right people and you have to use a lot of payola. It's called "payola." Payola is a strange sort of money that changes hands surreptitiously under tables and things like that or through middle-men. That's how you get ahead in this world and even then you can't get up there unless the big boys at the top open the door and bring you in. That's how it works. It's just like "free trade". There's no such thing as free trade. It's simply an easier trade for the big corporations. The small businesses are out of the picture. They can't get permits to sell their stuff under this guise of free trade. It's a cornering of the market for a select few. That's the reality and they use double-speak all the time to get their way.”

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LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2011-08-19 10:22, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-08-19 01:27, LobowolfXXX wrote:
You can go back further than the 90s to find out when it became a joke...Jethro Tull over Metallica for Best Hard Rock/Heavy Metal was NOT an auspicious debut for the category. I mean, Aqualung in '71, sure, but not Crest of a Knave.


For those not in the know, Budapest is the best-known song from Crest of a Knave.


Do remember that the flute is a heavy, metal instrument.

John


The only one I remember getting airplay in L.A. Was Farm on the Freeway.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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I'm sick of this, here in America they should be called the Ouncies.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Santana calls cuts to Grammy Awards ‘ignorant’ and ‘racist’ (0 Likes)
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