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LobowolfXXX
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Your statement that "What's happened to Social Security is that many politicians and many (uninformed or misinformed?) members of the public have delayed or prevented responsible and required changes to the program" is beside the main point on its face. A failure to implement necessary changes isn't "what happened" to Social Security; the question is, what is it that has made certain changes "required"? Perhaps it's not a change in the ADR, but if not that, then what? (I realize that it's almost certainly not reducible to a single factor, but what is/are the main factor(s)?)
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2011-08-31 14:02, Dr. JK wrote:
Actually, the reason Social Security is a scam has nothing to do with the information the government provides (or does not provide) about it. The reason it's a scam is because I'm smart enough to handle my own retirement, disability, etc. I don't need the government mandating that I pay into a system to help those who are not as smart with their money as I am.

I don't mind paying my fair share of taxes, but this is different. The government collects this money to "help me" down the road. Ergo it's a scam. I don't need their help and they are simply taking my money!


Yes, the fact that because some people would invest irresponsibly, all are forced to invest poorly (i.e. receiving a horrendous return on money paid into the system, with a heavy resistance to even voluntary partial privatization) is another real issue. When it's all said & done, you'd have been far better off had the money getting sucked out of each paycheck been placed in an index fund.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
balducci
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Quote:
On 2011-08-31 14:46, LobowolfXXX wrote:

Your statement that "What's happened to Social Security is that many politicians and many (uninformed or misinformed?) members of the public have delayed or prevented responsible and required changes to the program" is beside the main point on its face. A failure to implement necessary changes isn't "what happened" to Social Security;

Not at all. Insurance systems are not set in stone. They must be monitored and maintained, and updated as necessary. A failure to do so (some of this anyway) IS at least IN PART "what happened" to Social Security.

Yes, there were other factors. But the demographic factors in particular (like the changing age dependency ratio) were quite manageable, as inevitable and somewhat predictable changing demographic factors generally are.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
LobowolfXXX
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Again, updated "as necessary." The question is, what made it "necessary"?

My porch might get ruined by water damage, or by termite damage, or by a number of any things, and maybe all of them could have been prevented by diligent maintenance; however, my failure to maintain my home isn't what ruined the porch - either water absorbance warped the wood, or termites ate it, or something else happened. It might also have been the case that despite my failure to maintain it, it could remain just fine. Maybe it's comprised of really good wood. Maybe I live somewhere with minimal rain.

The Social Security system MIGHT have functioned just fine without updating it. If it hadn't been monitored, but continued to run smoothly, we wouldn't say that a lack of monitoring had "happened to it." Because, exactly as you say, those updates are only made if they were needed. Those things that made updating needed are what happened to it, whether or not the effects were avoidable by monitoring and updating.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
balducci
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On 2011-08-31 15:46, LobowolfXXX wrote:

The Social Security system MIGHT have functioned just fine without updating it. If it hadn't been monitored, but continued to run smoothly, we wouldn't say that a lack of monitoring had "happened to it."

You might not, but experts in the field reviewing the situation would.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
LobowolfXXX
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Ok. So meanwhile, in your opinion, what are the biggest factors that necessitated updating?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
balducci
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Quote:
On 2011-08-31 16:15, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Ok. So meanwhile, in your opinion, what are the biggest factors that necessitated updating?

I'm not an expert an all aspects of Social Security or its history. I've read a lot about it, met with experts (e.g., Myers and others), attended their talks, etc., but there is a lot I do not know.

I think the factors that plague Social Security and that need to be considered include demographic ones (e.g., the age dependency ratio, and people living longer into retirement), people's changed attitudes towards retirement and working post-retirement, the changed employment environment (i.e. fewer employed workers to support the retirees, something not captured in the usual age dependency ratio (which normally considers only age and not actual employment status)), the mishandling of surplus Social Security revenue in decades past ... there are a lot of issues, no doubt.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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