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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » No Touch CAAN by Devin Knight (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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writeall
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I can see this enhanced with a deck switch.
"You shuffle this deck while I (false) shuffle mine."
"Now, give me your shuffled deck (switch) and you take this one..."

Seems like the reset would be a nightmare though.
Devin Knight
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There appears to be some confusion as to what the effect looks like and the procedure. So I will explain what you see me do when I perform this.

First of all, I shuffle the deck while inviting someone to assist. The deck is then given running cuts in my hands, with the participant being asked to tell me when to stop cutting as he will take over at that point. The cuts are all different with some blocks being half the deck, others just a fourth of the cards. When he says stop, I immediately hand the deck to him.

He is asked to cut off small blocks of cards and drop them on the table into a pile. He doesn't cut off one block and stop, he continues to cut off blocks until he wants to stop. At this point he secretly looks at the top card of those in his hand, if he doesn't like the card, he drops it on the tabled pile and cuts off another block and looks at the card in his hand. Let's say he wants this card. I point out with all the cuts and cards he has discarded on the table, that nobody could have known how many cards he would have left...it is usually about 15 to 20 cards. Everyone agrees I couldn't have known how many cards would be left and that this would be a random number, as he cut off as many blocks as he wanted.

Someone then picks up the tabled deck and counts down to that number (the number of cards left in his hand) and finds the freely thought-of card.

As far as Eyes of Darkness, doing the cut deeper force is obvious to any magician watching. With my version, the the method is so well concealed it flies by most well-informed magicians. Nuff said.
entermagic
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...and you believe this is not a force???

Is the number a free choice???? How do you call this procedure FREE choice for the number part???? LOL

Just a question: You say the method (Eyes of Darkness) is obvious to any magician, but are your performances for magician or for layman??
I believe you have to build your magic in order to fool the layman and not the magician.
As you have seen I figured it out without to see the effect and without to see any performance.

Do you believe again your procedure fools the magician???

I point out your effect, because you said NO FORCE at all and this is FALSE.

Many people purchased your effect for this reason!

MP

PS. Just a I want add a note because you claim your procedure is better than Eyes of Darknenss.
With a small variant in Eyes of Darkness you can ask also the spectator to SHUFFLE the deck before he selects the card.
Can you ask the spectator to shuffle the deck before he selects the card or the number???
Nicolino
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Now even the slowest reader should have grasped what this effect is all about and can make his own decision about it....

On the other hand, as transparent as this may be: don't forget that even the criss-cross force does work (and for those in the know it's painfully obvious as well....) Smile
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Michael Daniels
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It seems to me that some serious false shuffles are needed to make this at all deceptive. Devin's more detailed description of the handling is rather a gift.

Mike
Devin Knight
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Quote:
On 2011-09-09 04:03, entermagic wrote:
...and you believe this is not a force???

Is the number a free choice???? How do you call this procedure FREE choice for the number part???? LOL


I have called and conferred with many of my card magician colleagues. We all agree that a number force is when a magician KNOWS the number such as 17. In other words, the magician knows the outcome and the trick is reliant on that. The outcome will be the same. In my effect, the magician does not know the outcome, neither does the participant. The random number is derived from the number of cards LEFT in his hand after he has cut of blocks of cards onto the table. This number could be 7, 14,35 or any number basically 3 to 35. The number is different each performance and the performer has no idea what the final number will be. Since this the way the number is derived, it a random number as the magician has no control over the number of cards remaining. I have performed this effect thousands of times and I always ask people if they would agree this was a random number that nobody could have known (unless truly psychic). The answer is always a resounding, "Yes." With that thought in mind, I firmly has to disagree and state as did in the beginning, the number derived is random number, and there is NO FORCE of the number.

Quote:
Just a question: You say the method (Eyes of Darkness) is obvious to any magician, but are your performances for magician or for layman?? I believe you have to build your magic in order to fool the layman and not the magician.


I create 90% of my magic to FOOL magicians, that is what I am best known for. I feel if the effect will fool a magician it will FRY laymen as well. It is easy to create magic to fool laypeople, but it is tougher to create effects that fool most magicians.

Quote:
Do you believe again your procedure fools the magician???


I don't believe it, I know it, as I am told at lectures they were fooled until I showed the secret. Tomorrow I hope to show this to one of the best known cardians in the world at my lecture. I have fooled him before and I hope to do this again.

Quote:
I point out your effect, because you said NO FORCE at all and this is FALSE.
Many people purchased your effect for this reason!


As pointed out in this, there is no force of the number, it is truly random. Any card can be chosen from the deck.


Quote:

PS. Just a I want add a note because you claim your procedure is better than Eyes of Darknenss.
With a small variant in Eyes of Darkness you can ask also the spectator to SHUFFLE the deck before he selects the card.
Can you ask the spectator to shuffle the deck before he selects the card or the number???


As a matter of fact yes I can with a small variant. When I shuffle the deck, I REALLY MIX THE CARDS. This is what puzzles magicians. They can see I really am mixing the cards. The mix is for real and I have no idea of the order of the deck! Anyone who bought my manuscript and thinks about it, will realize this is possible. At my lectures I show how you can really mix the cards for real, before the spectator cuts off blocks.

BTW, thanks for suggesting the spectator shuffle, starting tomorrow in my lectures I am going to use a variant to show HOW you can let the participant shuffle. This nuance is going to be reserved for those who attend my lectures.
entermagic
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Mr Devin, I believe you don't have any idea what is the meaning of FORCE.

If he selects 5H inside the deck (free choice), can I select ANY number?
Can I select 34 or 32, can I change mind using another random number?
If I cannot change the number this meaning the number is forced and in your case
there is no choice, it is the same if on the back of each card there is a number.
You ask the spectator to select any card 5h and as number you ask to turn over the card
and to read the number on its back 34. 34 is FORCED because there is NO CHOICE, I cannot
change 34 on this card.

When I say, in Eyes of Darkness, the spectator can shuffle the deck, the spectator shuffles the deck really. In
your case, YOU shuffle the deck.

You compare this routine with the Holy Grail saying it is very close.... LOL.

When you say there is no force. Why do you say any card can be selected and not Any card and Any number can be freely selected???

MP
RNK
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Devn just stated in his previous post that he IS going to let the spectator shuffle the cards. As for the number- Devin said it IS a RANDOM number. RANDOM meaning- a number not KNOWN before hand- it CAN VARY. Though the spec is not freely speaking the actual number- he IS choosing it by the number of cuts he makes!

What's hard to understand here? Is it just me?

RNK
entermagic
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Quote:
On 2011-09-09 07:57, RNK wrote:
Devn just stated in his previous post that he IS going to let the spectator shuffle the cards. As for the number- Devin said it IS a RANDOM number. RANDOM meaning- a number not KNOWN before hand- it CAN VARY. Though the spec is not freely speaking the actual number- he IS choosing it by the number of cuts he makes!

What's hard to understand here? Is it just me?

RNK



Maybe you say there is no force because for each card there is a different number
and the number is not the same???? I am sorry again... If a card influences the number
(also if the number is different for any other card), the number is again
forced. The same happens is Eyes of Darkness, for each number there is card. In his
case for each card there is number.

MP

PS: With his definition of force Eyes of Darkness doesn't use any force, because
the magician and the spectator doesn't know the identity of the selected card before he selects really. Correct? This is false obviously
p_n_g
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Ok, I've already bought it, and I not yet performed it, therefore I don't want to make wrong assumptions about if it will fool my audience or not.
But, Mr. Knight explained to me that the deck can be shuffled, and no - the magician - will not know the order of the cards, as they are really shuffled, yet the method will still work.
Actually, I think this handling should have been included in the manuscript, but that's just my opinion.
If you have questions please turn to Mr. Knight, hopefully he will answer your questions.

Oh, overall, I like it. Especially now.
entermagic
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Quote:
On 2011-09-09 08:03, p_n_g wrote:
Ok, I've already bought it, and I not yet performed it, therefore I don't want to make wrong assumptions about if it will fool my audience or not.
But, Mr. Knight explained to me that the deck can be shuffled, and no - the magician - will not know the order of the cards, as they are really shuffled, yet the method will still work.
Actually, I think this handling should have been included in the manuscript, but that's just my opinion.
If you have questions please turn to Mr. Knight, hopefully he will answer your questions.

Oh, overall, I like it. Especially now.


Ok, please can you tell everyone if the number and the card are freely selected or the number is influenced by the card selected???

If the card influence the number you have force correct?

MP
RNK
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If you have a card- say 3 of clubs sitting at position 3 in a deck- then you shuffle or the spec shuffles the deck and the 3 of clubs now sits at position 26 and the spec cuts the cards to the 3 of clubs which is located at position 26- how is this a force of a number? It is a RANDOM number the spec cut to.

RNK
yachanin
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Hi entermagic,

I think the problem is that you and Devin are using different definitions of what constitutes a "force." Your definition is that the outcome of events (i.e., selection of the card, selection of the number) need to be independent of other events. Devin's definition is that the outcome of events (i.e., which card and how many to count) need to be unknown prior to the events occurring and can be different each time.

Regards, Steve
Nicolino
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Agreed, Steve. But I also see Marco's point that the number is forced (not by the magician but by its prior choice). Interesting how definitions can change the whole perception of something!
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yachanin
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Hi Nicolino,

I agree that both definitions are valid definitions of a "force" and I think that when all is said and done, a volunteer would perceive they had a "free choice" in either case and that the magician could not have known the information in advance.

Regards, Steve
RNK
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Quote:
On 2011-09-09 09:47, Nicolino wrote:
Agreed, Steve. But I also see Marco's point that the number is forced (not by the magician but by its prior choice). Interesting how definitions can change the whole perception of something!


Yes- but by a prior RANDOM choice of when the spectator stops cutting the cards.
robd
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Thanks for the clarification Devin, I figured I must be missing something in the effect.
Gorecki
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This is most perplexing.

From where I'm standing (perhaps because I do not understand the sequence of the effect properly), the solution is fairly obvious.

(Although I have to admit that Devin's statement that he can genuinely shuffle the cards is throwing me for a loop. I am tempted to ask whether the spectator could shuffle the deck, but that would decidedly be fishing, so please disregard that line of questioning.)

On the other hand, Devin keeps saying that he's fooling most magicians with it... and I can't imagine that he'd be lying about that.

The only logical conclusion is that I must be missing something, right?
So I'll take the plunge and purchase the ebook, and then come back here with further comments.
RNK
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Just purchased myself. I believe Devin did say that the spec can shuffle the cards! This makes things very interesting. Waiting for my copy to come!

RNK
entermagic
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Quote:
On 2011-09-09 14:39, RNK wrote:
Just purchased myself. I believe Devin did say that the spec can shuffle the cards! This makes things very interesting. Waiting for my copy to come!

RNK


Please, as you have it, can you check if there is a free choice on the number part and if there is not a force technique?

:)

Shuffle the cards of yes, I bet you can shuffle just a pile after you have already selected the card... BINGO! Smile (This is an obvious consequence if there is a force
on the number part.)

MP
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