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magicboy7 New user Chicago, IL 45 Posts |
Aloha Jack and all the beast
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magicboy7 New user Chicago, IL 45 Posts |
Aloha Jack ans all the best,
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Dixie Loyal user 219 Posts |
I bought from Jack and got exactly what I wanted and paid for, so I am satisfied.
This is something which did not happen to me when I tried to buy from Jack Moyer, Snap Illusions, Indiana. That company received the money and never delivered. And before this post is deleted for telling the truth, let me assure you that I have a copy of the payment order while Jack Moyer does not have a copy of the shipping documents, because I paid but Snap Illusions never delivered. Prove me wrong, Jack Moyer and show us your shipping documents for my illusion. Just to remind you, where the real cheats are. Regards Richard |
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Bradacal Special user 591 Posts |
Yeah, Im going to come to bat for Jack as well. I have bought probably 5 of his illusions over the years and all have been built well. I will be the first to admit, I did have a few small issues with one prop he built for me, but I didn't come here, I went to Jack and he took care of it no problem. This was more to due with the fact it was a custom piece and had to due with the hiding spot of my assistant (which is always tough to do without actually having her present) - but like I said, the adjustments were made and we were good to go! The other props were great, and he also includes free shipping and an ATA case to protect your investment (no other builder I have worked with includes this in the already really good price). Jack is a good builder and I know he works hard and deeply cares about his business and reputation. Sometimes I think he is overly defensive of his props and business, but I can't blame him - like I said, he works hard and is very good when it comes to communication and I think he deserved at least the chance to fully rectify this before anything negative was stated here or any other forum.
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MagiChrisMitch Special user 702 Posts |
When you are the owner/operator of a small business and put everything you have into it, one can't help being put on the defensive when negative feedback is given out. This can be very damaging to one's business reputation that takes years of hard work to build. It is true that good news travels fast, but bad news travels much, much faster. These kinds of matters are taken personally, and usually its just unavoidable because of the type of personal service and physical work from a small business owner that's providing and building product. I finally learned myself that even though you try to do everything possible to please everyone you serve, there will always be certain people than can never be pleased.
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nevarillusions New user 65 Posts |
Im not bashing anybody......
I was just expecting more from a proffesional company and theres not much jack can do for me when were in 2 different countries and as a performer these are problems the magician isn't required to deal with no matter how minor I respect jack as a builder out of frustration I did post here before contacting jack and I do apologize but this has been my personal experiance personal experiance |
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hugmagic Inner circle 7655 Posts |
I think this entire topic should be deleted. The original poster was frustrated and posted in anger. Very few posts under this topic serve any purpose but to make others mad. Unfortunately, words written on the interest can be misunderstood as to the tone and intent of the words.
I think Jack could and would have done a better job communicating with this original poster had he been contacted. He has obviously made things right with others in which there were problems. I think there as some other unlying things that have no place in this topic. They can only serve to enflame and aggravate old wounds. Again, I would prefer to see this whole topic delete and a more honest assessment of the pros and cons of Dream illusions. Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com email-hugmagic@raex.com Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's. |
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Olle Tro. New user www 72 Posts |
It seams there is sometimes no difference in contacting him directly or not. I did get knowledge from an illusionist, who did buy a prop that had malfunctions. Jack was contacted and did answer harshly. No help was offered, no refund, no excuse, etc. nothing but unkind words, in big letters like here... So at least in this case it seams there was no difference in the end, whether contacting Dream Illusions or not. Maybe an exceptional case? Don't know.
There might be and out of reviews it seams to be good work with at least the fire cage, but this risk should also be known and not deleted, to get an extensive impression. Maybe it would be a good solving offer to give nevarillusions the 500 - 1000 USD he needs to make it work? Like that the thread even turns into an advertisement thread. |
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Falconer Special user PORTUGAL 576 Posts |
The most important of all is to speak the truth, proving it!
Falconer
FALCONER
IMAGICIANS.DE facebook falcobook |
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videoman Inner circle 6732 Posts |
I understand how upsetting it can be to feel like your hard-earned reputation is being tarnished unfairly, and I certainly know first-hand the trials and tribulations of running a small business and the impossible task of trying to make every client happy.
But unfortunately Jack let his emotions get the best of him and came off as cranky, hot-headed and insensitive to anyone who does not know him. It would have been much better to explain his position calmly and with empathy and understanding. Difficult to do? Oh hell yeah, you better believe it. But the truth is, that would have far better served his reputation. As it is, once you start throwing temper tantrums and making threats it doesn't really matter if you are justified or not. You just give the impression of being someone that most folks wouldn't want to do business with, especially when your products sell for several thousand of dollars. I wouldn't even know that Jack or Dream Illusions existed if it weren't for the Magic Café. Overall, TMC has probably done him far more good than bad. All I've ever heard is that Jack is an honest guy and an excellent builder and all of that has been on TMC. But unfortuantely, not having done business with him before, I have to say that I would avoid doing business with him if I needed an illusion in the future. Perhaps if I were purchasing a non-custom item for only a couple hundred dollars or less, I would consider it. But not for thousand(s) on a custom prop. It's sad but true. And absolutely not because of any of the negative posts written above, but simply because of Jack's reaction to them. I can't risk having that much money invested with someone who could quite easily lose his temper with me. I am sure Jack is a very good business owner but I have no doubt even his wife would agree this time, say and feel what you want in private, but in your public persona be all smiles. Too bad he an opportunity and blew it by saying what he really thinks. There is time and place to be a "straight-shooter" and this was neither IMHO. |
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61magic Special user Sacramento California 775 Posts |
I didn't see the original post as "bashing". The poster gave what they felt was an accurate account of what was expected and received.
He even indicated he was reimbursed some of his costs for his trouble. I would think that indicates some communications between the two. The post finally finishes saying in so many words he feels he can get a better value work with other sources. If the post is accurate the person spent 15K and does have some right to state what he feels is good or bad about the purchase. I didn't see anything in the original post I would consider harsh. The fact is when you open a business and sell a product you will get criticism and not all of it will be positive or even accurate, that is part of the business environment. Videoman's summary is righ on the mark. The responses were much more "bashing" in nature than the original post. What should be leared from this is the over-reaction to the post did more damage to the builder's reputation than anything the posted said.
Professor J. P. Fawkes
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The Drake Inner circle 2274 Posts |
I wonder why posts bashing on other builders are removed ( quite quickly I might add ) and just recently when a new prop was shown to us on the Café some said they didn't like it and it went poof yet Jack gets slammed and the post stays like glue. If the mods can answer that I'd love to hear it. I have a guess but would prefer to hear it from the horses mouth so to speak. I am guessing Jack requested it be removed yet here it is.
Mods? Hello? |
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nevarillusions New user 65 Posts |
I see that this post has gotten completely out of hand. For the record, I wasn't trying to drag Jack's name through the mud or bash the quality of his work. I was a little upset with the illusions that I purchased and I should have talked to him directly b4 posting on the Café. Unfortunely I did not do this and came right with my review. For this I do apologise to Jack at Dream Illusions. I know that he is human and he maybe over looked a few smaller things with the illusions, that I am gonna have to fix. There was a little lack of communication on both our parts about what I was getting. My assistant has been dealing with Jack and they have figure out a solution to help fix these problems. I do have to give Jack credit. He is following up on this work and is trying to help fix the problems that I have found. I know that he could have just said forget it due to my mistake at the beginning, by posting this right away. There was a damaged ata casing when the tricks arrived. The illusion wasn't damgaed but the casing was sent back. Jack told my assisant that even though I ****ed him off with this post, he is sending me a new ata casing so that order is complete. My assisant and jack are still working out some small things maybe even a little cash back to help get these illusions to best level they can be, but you have to give the guy credit even though he may have lost his cool a little on here. For any new magicians that are dealing with builders please don't make the same mistake that I made, go right to the builder if there are problems. Do not just post your fustraights on here. Talk to your builder as much as you can to makesure that you are getting exactly what you are after. There might be a little aditional but make sure you get what you are after. Once again I do apologise for this and to Jack, thank you for seeing your illusions all the way through.
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Aaron Smith Magic Inner circle Portland, OR 1447 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-09-20 21:25, nevarillusions wrote: Exactly!! Very well said nevarillusions. I admire your courage to man up, and apologize. It just goes to show, if you straight to the source, then usually you will get things resolved. Kudos to Jack for still taking care of the situation, even after all of this. I actually think this thread should stay up. A lot of people can learn from it. |
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hugmagic Inner circle 7655 Posts |
Glad to see something positive to come out of this posting.
Communication is the Key. Jack or any magic builder is not a mind reader. One does not know about the problem unless they are made aware of it. Then if the problem is not fixed, then that is a different matter all together. Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com email-hugmagic@raex.com Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's. |
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Jack Murray Special user St. Petersburg Fl. 773 Posts |
I will make one final post regarding this topic.
For those who support me, my heart felt thanks. For those who post smart a-- comments like Jody Baren, I guess you feel that's fine and helpful. I don't quite understand when Craig Dickens [ a very recent post] Daniel Summers, [from several years ago] just for 2 examples, are VERY vocal and passionate with their post, it seems to be OK, but I'm held to a higher standard. I should be calm when a buyer does what he has here. This poster is new here and until I responded NO ONE HERE EVEN KNEW IF THIS PURCHASE TOOK PLACE. Just because a poster comes here and tells a tale, doesn't make it fact!!!! But some here just assumed he posted the "truth". Now to the "why" I got so upset. When someone comes to the Café and makes a post like the one this posted did, it's because the builder has ALREADY been contacted and will do nothing to help....like in the case of S--- Illusions. So now I guess it's alright and "ethical" to treat me like S---. I have worked for too hard for this. One more point: with all due respect, if you AREN'T in my position, and haven't sweet blood to stay in business for 12 years, PLEASE don't tell me or others. "what I would do" because you have NO frame of reference and have NO idea how you would feel or what you would do. Maybe some of you would be happier if I went out of business so S--- and others could offer you the crap then sell. My props are for the most part 100 aluminum with a durable powder coating, and the prop comes WITH an ATA case and shipping. ALL for a very affordable price. I contacted a builder recently for some RC feet for a sawing.....$3500. Just some perspective. Jody Baren seems to get off in needling me although his membership info says, "World class magician". Well there is nothing classy in your comments Jody. Here is a copy of a PM I received from a 17 year old young man. HE HAS MORE CLASS THAN ALL OF US PUT TOGETHER: Hey Jack, I've never worked with you before, but I hope one day I can. Don't let the Café bring you down, I've seen some of your work and I hope one day I can get you to build something for me. I'm only 17 right now, I've actually owned my own business for 6 years (under my fathers name) and done quite well for myself. I can only imagine how much work goes into keeping something MUCH larger going for 12 years. One final point: A review should be just that. "Sitting in judgement" is something else entirely. These two concepts are almost always blurred here on the Café. My complaint at the post and the way it was done is legitimate and insulting. If I offended anyone with my passion then I am TRULY sorry. There are many here that still can't possible understand my position because they haven't walked in my shoes. Now let's see how much class "they" have from this point on. Jack
Jack Murray
http://www.dream-illusions.com |
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Murray Hatfield Regular user Canada 150 Posts |
I got a call from Jack Murray today and we had a great conversation. I have to say that not only did we resolve the minor issue that we had but I came to find out just how passionate Jack is in his work. I appreciate his willingness to talk openly and honestly and to try to right any wrongs.
In retrospect I should have thought twice before I hit the send button and would suggest that all of us should consider this at times. It wasn't my problem nor my place to comment on it. I hope that Nevarillusions gets in touch with Jack and that they're able to find a path to a solution that works for both of them. |
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cardone Special user 860 Posts |
Jack rules !
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extremeeric New user Long Island, NY 51 Posts |
Agreed! Jack has always been great to work with! And free ata cases and shipping is always a plus.
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Pambalini New user 58 Posts |
Murray, after reading your first response to this topic, and then reading what you just said, reminds me of an old adage. It's about allowing your little self to step aside and allowing your big self to come forward. During the years I have followed your rise in success and have always maintained respect for your ethical makeup. Your last post has accelerated that respect and I believe you have just set an example for all of us to follow or at least give thought to.
Pam |
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