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mahucharn Elite user 418 Posts |
I see equivoque's point. If you're a hobbyist and work in an office of some kind, it can be a great effect.
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
Really good show. Major, major kudos to Craig for having the ******** to state his opinion on Royal Road and Bobo's. Couldn't agree more.
Really looking forward to picking up The Book of Magic ********. Is there any way for any of us not going to Lads to get an autographed copy? How about autographing pre-orders? (Not you Craig, the author.) And finally, kodos to David for the nice comment about Double Back during the show even after the bit of controversy generated from the review. Thanks guys. Mike P.S. Craig, did you really get Stand Up Monte down after a half hour? While the moves are certainly very easy, I swear I spent 2 weeks trying to get it down pat without screwing up the sequences! |
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Chessmann Inner circle 4247 Posts |
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On 2011-09-22 21:30, rockwall wrote: Maybe he used cue cards!
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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gaffed Inner circle So far I've managed to gimmick 1817 Posts |
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On 2011-09-22 22:10, Chessmann wrote: Lol... Yes, sometime ago I was reading through the thread on Stand Up Monte and someone else mentioned that although the effect is great, it took a good amount of time in getting down the proper sequence of moves.
"Half this game is ninety percent mental."
~Yogi Berra~ "To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." ~St. Thomas Aquinas~ Twitter – "A means of proving how pathetic and lonely you are in 140 characters or less." ~Anonymous~ |
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MoonRazor Special user 848 Posts |
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On 2011-09-21 08:51, Lexa wrote: No, don't do anything he says |
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Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2537 Posts |
Excellent review and a good mix of items.
For me, Garrett Thomas's 'Stand Up Monte' is just a re-work of Keith Bennett's 'Kick Back Monte'. If I had to choose between the two, in all honesty I'd go for Keith Bennett's version as it's much cleaner and easier for the spectator to follow. The Thomas version (to my way of thinking) has too many phases and in a lot of noisier environments, I can imagine how the spectators would either lose the plot of the effect and/or become bored pretty quickly. The fact that you continually take cards in and out of pockets is actually a big negative with both of the aforementioned routines if I'm honest. After all, are you showing a monte style gambling effect, or are you performing card(s) to pocket? Maybe I'm just an old fart but to my mind, there has never been anything to match Pat Page's 'The Kitson Miracle' for a fast moving, entertaining (in the hands) 3 card monte routine. 'Rematch' by Caleb Wiles (does he honestly use that name professionally - and what's with his hair cut....has he recently spent time on Death Row?) - well what can you say about this other than the fact that it epitomises so much of what is wrong with magic products today. Just 3 (pretty mundane looking) card effects on 1 DVD? From what I've seen in the clips, they don't exactly add anything new or worthwhile to card magic; a re-work of a Paul Harris effect (that I don't even think is very good for laymen in the first place) and some mind-numbingly boring match up effect that I presume uses a stack - therefore, it ISN'T commercial (unless you can have 20 packs set up whilst you work the tables). The third effect, I don't even remember if it was covered or I drifted off to sleep. Compare the value of this DVD with (for example) a DVD from Harry Lorayne or Paul Gordon, and I think you'll quickly realise what provides you with better value for money AND the better, commercial material. 'Sanitised' - the sort of trick that hits the market place, is purchased by magicians for their favorite magic drawer to gather dust, before being put on Ebay in 6 months time with a starting price of 99p. Craig and Dave gave some good ideas for it's use but to be honest, there are a lot more powerful prediction effects already on the market. Also, have YOU honestly seen anyone carrying a bottle of this stuff around with them? Maybe, if the stickers were available for beer, wine or water bottles you may be able to use this in a restaurant, a bar, or even at wedding tables - BUT a bottle of 'hand sanitizer'? I just don't get it. 'All will be consumed' - looks pretty good BUT it wasn't clear how long it takes to set/reset, and whether the bottle can be glass. Maybe I'm going into 'old fart' mode again BUT what can be more unbelievable than putting a borrowed coin, that's too big for the neck, into a GLASS bottle? Moreover, with the old bog standard coin in bottle, it is held by the spectator rather than performing a pretty unnatural looking move as in the clips! I just hope that this trick IS as good as it looks rather than being some pipe dream. At least UK magicians can hopefully get some mileage out of it given that we are forever being asked by spectators - "can you put my mobile in a bottle like Dynamo does?" 'The book of magic bo**o*ks' - this looks fantastic and is on my 'must buy' list - 'nuff said. A really good review and as a poster said above, it's GREAT to see a BOOK reviewed, BOOKS mentioned and the value of BOOKS endorsed. I can't agree with Craig that Bobo is particularly outdated - what are you specifically referring to there Craig? That said, what I also don't agree with is that anyone should find it difficult to learn magic from a well written/produced book. The fact is they are too BONE IDLE to either read and/or want to learn. The worrying thing leading on from this is that they are probably NOT going to put in the time, practise and effort to present magic properly - they are the type of person that believes magic should be full of miraculous self-working effects that are going to give them stardom and fame overnight. Sorry, but that can't be good for magic; and it certainly can't be good for the profession. Maybe we need to rewrite books in 'text speak' "so dat al da boox r EZ 2 reed no wot I meen bruv innit dats gr8 den LOL wikkid PMSL" Sorry, off on a rant again! So thanks overall chaps for another excellent review - and for your time and efforts producing these weekly updates for the benefit of other magi. The fact that you spoke about BOOKS and slated some idiotic, puerile tory supporter made this the best one yet in my view.
Barry Allen
Over 15 years have now passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
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SimonG-97 Special user 508 Posts |
I am a teenager , and could easily be influenced by the whole Instand download , 30 pound dvd for three tricks group. But I'd much prefer a book, like the essential Dai Vernon and get loads and I mean loads of good tricks, useful information and moves for £110 pounds. Spend £110 pounds on dvds and you might be lucky enough to get twenty routines maybe. don't get me wrong , some dvds are excellent but some are awful.
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Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2537 Posts |
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On 2011-09-23 12:36, SimonG-97 wrote: That's great to hear Simon; and it's refreshing to hear a teenager leaning the art of magic the correct way. I'm certainly NOT anti-DVD and fully recognise that magic needs to progress. There have always been bad magic tricks - either in the effect itself or it's poor manufacture. However, and this is only my view, what DVD's appear to be doing is basically enabling people to produce them comparatively cheaply (compared to financing a book run of perhaps 2,000 minimum) and filling the DVD with material that isn't very good - because there is minimal financial risk. When a book is produced, the author knows it HAS TO contain good material or he's going to have a garage full of paper depreciating in value. The downside, is that a lot of the DVD's that Craig & Dave are reviewing (often as one trick DVD's) are nowhere near as good as the material within many of the books deemed magical classics. This results in the current magic market being awash with complete and utter dross. Doubt it? Check out the amount of second-hand DVD's selling for peanuts on Ebay. Therefore, DVD's, to my mind, ARE NOT enabling magic to progress - quite the contrary in fact. I try to look at effects from the layman's perspective. To this end, and to save yourself money, if you are having a 'spend up' at a dealers day or magic convention, try and take along a layman friend and see what floats their boat. I'd be willing to bet that it would not be the items that turn you on - as we look at things from a magician's perspective; e.g. what's the method, do the props look nice and God forbid, we see a new wallet for sale! To give you an example of this, I had a phone call in June from an old friend that I haven't seen for around 10 years. He wanted to book me for his wedding in October on one condition - that I HAVE to do that trick for his Wife that I did for him 20 odd years ago where I vanish a lit cigarette into his jacket! For 20 years, that one effect, using a humble TT, has clearly been etched on his mind. As an aside, this basic magical effect earned Terry Seabrooke a pretty decent standard of living - it was never left out of his cabaret act. Sorry that I've gone off on a tangent (again!) but the point I'm trying to make is that it is the CLASSICS that you find in many books, which in turn, subsequently become CLASSICS themselves. Now let me think, what will we ever consider to be a CLASSIC DVD? Again, thanks to Dave and Craig for at least running us through these DVD's and for being open and honest in their assessments so that customers can make an informed decision - rather than being overcome by the 'flash, bang & smoke' advertising hype. That said Simon - study your Vernon. You won't go far wrong fella!
Barry Allen
Over 15 years have now passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
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Ray Chelt Special user Changing the world with my 988 Posts |
Surprised at the love for stand up monte.
Maybe its just me but "that move" has always felt a bit flaky and to see it used again and again worries me to death. |
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Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2537 Posts |
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On 2011-09-23 16:18, Ray Chelt wrote: Not to mention the couple of Flushtration Counts. Now that's a move I've never felt comfortable with - I really don't know how it convinces anyone.....it's even worse than the cross-cut force!
Barry Allen
Over 15 years have now passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
Learn it and try it. Once you see the reactions it gets, you'll be feeling the love too. There's a lot of 'magic' happening in that little routine.
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MeetMagicMike Inner circle Gainesville Fl 3504 Posts |
Re-Swindled is one of those tricks that doesn't work unless you have it down pat and perform it briskly. I don't mean that the moves are performed quickly, I mean that everything is performed exactly at the speed it would be if you weren't doing a trick at all. You're simply explaining how cheating occurs.
If you belabor the routine and make it a magical showpiece it could be boring and confusing. I performed it tonight at amost every table at the restaurant. People reacted strongly when I showed the Jacks were back and thought the trick was over. When they changed to Aces there were gasps and OMG's and Wow's etc. It is the kind of routine that you can do with any deck handed to you (you only need to get three card secretly in position). It pegs you as as an expert card handler which is way cooler than magic guy in my book. |
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Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2537 Posts |
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On 2011-09-23 23:01, MeetMagicMike wrote: Mike - I fully appreciate that your feedback is from an actual workers perspective and if this plays well for you, then happy days fella. To be honest, this side of the pond is a little different as hardly anyone plays cards any more - so the card handling/sharping angle hasn't really got any emotion attached to it for the majority of Brits. That said mate, I really don't want to be pegged as an expert card handler OR a magic guy come to that; irrespective of whether either are 'cool'. I would like my audience to peg me as an ENTERTAINER.........that performs magic.
Barry Allen
Over 15 years have now passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
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Shrubsole Inner circle Kent, England 2455 Posts |
Here in the UK we are not trying to look 'cool' we are trying to entertain others!
Granted a few impressionable kids love all that card juggling for absolutely no good reason (apart from thinking that it makes them look cool and that it's all about them) but it should be about entertaining the punters and interacting with them. I don't see card juggling as leaving a lasting emotional memory. In fact trying to impress on an English audience how wonderful and cool you are is not the way to go at all and will be met with quite a few appropriate responses and some inappropriate ones too!
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
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MeetMagicMike Inner circle Gainesville Fl 3504 Posts |
Guys, I'm certainly not talking about card juggling.
I'm talking about expert card handling and gambling expose as examplified by Darwin Ortiz, Daryl, Ammar and many others. Although considered magicians, the real premise of their act is more often that of skill not supernatural phenomena. |
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Shrubsole Inner circle Kent, England 2455 Posts |
But surely within card magic, the move have to be performed with great skill to the point that they don't look like moves or are totally invisible? Whilst there are many bad card magicians fumbling all over the place, they are also good skilled ones.
The same goes for any branch of magic and mentalism. There are the good and great skilled workers and then there are the painful ones. So I don't get that you can divorce card magic from magicians and call one skillful and the other not as they are all one and the same with only the actual person making it skillful or bad.
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
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Blueroyalty Loyal user 280 Posts |
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On 2011-09-23 16:25, Merc Man wrote: Surprisingly, the criss cut force is actually really effective when used sparingly and with proper timing. Once I got more advanced I completely blew off its effectiveness, but I started back using it about 2 years ago with tricks involving patter/story-lines and it always flies by... |
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Shrubsole Inner circle Kent, England 2455 Posts |
The same with a Flushtration Count, if used sparingly it can be very effective.
Most things in mentalism are very simple but it's how you apply them and deliver them. They are tools and only a bad workman blames his tools. If something isn't for you then don't do it... but that doesn't mean it's a bad move. Someone else might fly with it.
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
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MeetMagicMike Inner circle Gainesville Fl 3504 Posts |
My view is that the Flushtration count works best to show something that is allready assumed.
IF you have four cards with different colored backs using the Flushtration count to show they have identical backs works because that is expected. It also helps that you seem to be showing the faces and the backs are seen incidently. Using the Flushtration count to show that four different faces have changed into four identical faces is considerabley less convincing. The cross cut force is about as convincing as any force there is provided the person you are performing for isn't an amateur magician. This is one of the first forces taught in most books and store bought card tricks. |
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bugjack Inner circle New York, New York 1624 Posts |
I saw Tony Picasso do his close-up set at the Magic Castle and if he used it once, he must have used the cross-cut a half a dozen times. And, even though I know and use it, it just flew right past me. It's a great force.
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