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JeremyM0411 Special user Moody, Alabama 608 Posts |
This looks like a great effect! I can't wait to see a full review.
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TonyPorter Regular user 180 Posts |
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On 2011-11-24 03:50, surryhills wrote: That proposition assumes that every audience member of every audience in every performing situation will always react the same way to your presentation. The probability of that scenario is so statistically insignificant as to render the statement simply untrue. |
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bowers Inner circle Oakboro N.C. 7024 Posts |
A lot of my tricks in my show are not examinable.
but I don't offer them to be look at either. your offering a amazing illusion.not can you figure this out.they need to just enjoy the magic. todd |
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FrenchDrop Inner circle I can name that tune in 1647 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-11-24 03:50, surryhills wrote: How do you know that?
"A great magician has said of his profession that its practitioners '… must pound and rack their brains to make the least learning go in, but quarrelling always comes very naturally to them.'” -- Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell
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surryhills Regular user Germany 149 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-11-24 20:04, bowers wrote: I totally agree with you! Quote:
On 2011-11-24 19:08, TonyPorter wrote: Men, are we still talking about magic or science? Yes I know some ppl see magic as science but I don't. And I can only talk about my experience as a working magician and no one ever wanted to touch my deck of cards after Satic(Haunted Deck). Maybe I´m just lucky or maybe I´m pretty good in controlling my audience... |
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Saturn UK Inner circle 2658 Posts |
Your right most people do not want to see the deck if your management is good, but you must know in your own mind they are thinking they wish they could see the deck.
To be able to hand it over really stumps people as the mind has nowhere to go. As a working magician you must know its little things that turn a good trick into a fantastic one.I can imagine them talking about this after the event saying they have no idea how you did it and they even checked the pack, it takes it to another level. The haunted deck is so strong a trick having them examine the cards in my view is all part of it as many others let you do e.g. Spooked and Chill to name just 2. If you don't let them check then it was a trick deck in use!
www.saturnmagic.co.uk
#theshopwithstock Pleased to be different! FACEBOOK: www.facebook.com/saturnmagic.co.uk |
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FrenchDrop Inner circle I can name that tune in 1647 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-11-25 06:32, surryhills wrote: Again: How do you know that?
"A great magician has said of his profession that its practitioners '… must pound and rack their brains to make the least learning go in, but quarrelling always comes very naturally to them.'” -- Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell
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brad12d3 Special user 526 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-11-25 07:02, themagiczone wrote: This. Letting the audience examine your trick is rarely necessary, however it can really take a trick to the next level. I have a trick that I have been performing lately that requires a very easy move to end clean. Most of the time, this move is not necessary because nobody ever checks the item in question at the end of the performance, except for once. My brother in law who is getting his PHD and is not only incredible smart but very perceptive immediately made the move to inspect the trick and the fact it was clean made him say, "How is that even possible!" Before he inspected the trick he thought he knew what happened, and in all honesty.. he was right. Without the clean up he would have discovered the secret, however the fact that he inspected it and didn't find what he was looking for, made it all the more perplexing. |
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Scott Imler Special user Calgary, Canada 545 Posts |
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On 2011-11-25 08:48, FrenchDrop wrote: I can only defend Surryhills statement by saying if the desire for them to want to examine the deck is strong enough then they would verbally ask. I know what you are driving at when you ask How do you know that? I also see Surrys point though. I think the entertainment factor, your presentation and handling of the spectators in prior effects leading up to this one and not to mention what you do to follow this up (if its not a closer) can all but eliminate the desire for them to want to see every card or prop you use.I always find it funny that magicians want to run with out being chased. Think about all the card effects you do that are just as magical to a spectator that are done without gimmicks and we do not scrutinize the examability of those tricks. I find if you can win them over with some humour and come across as likeable they tend to just sit back and enjoy. On the other hand and I have seen this with young amatures who make the mistake of making it a challenge to the spectators by their sheer presentation or cockyness which results in a different reaction in which the spectators want to challenge YOU! If I was asked by spectators to see the cards after every effect my shows would be 20 minites longer !!! It just does not happen enough and when it does there are more than enough ways to deflect it. Its part of the skill and art of performing magic in my opinion. 2 cents spent Scott |
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Saturn UK Inner circle 2658 Posts |
I take your point re examination, we can't let them see everything and I don't.
I believe this is an exception, handing the deck to them or just leaving it there for them to see if they wish is fundamental for me but maybe not for others ,we all have our own needs and requirements when performing. I'm not right your not wrong, but if any magical effect is examinable it is better than one that is not that produces the same effect.
www.saturnmagic.co.uk
#theshopwithstock Pleased to be different! FACEBOOK: www.facebook.com/saturnmagic.co.uk |
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zhoudumu Regular user philadelphia 172 Posts |
Lots of people said audience will not examine it if you have good management. That is true. Especially if you are a work pro. For example in a restaurant, people just enjoy the whole performance. You can run trick by trick without any stop fluently.
But imagine if you are just with one special client or some friends, you really can sell it with the fully examiable condition.Like someone said lead it into a new level. |
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PRINCE Inner circle 1448 Posts |
For those who work in the real world, know that no matter how good you are at audience management, you will/may always run into someone who asks is they can 'have a look at the deck' usually its the group of lads, or the boyfriend/husband who knows it all and cannot stand to be fooled by Mr Magic infront of his other half. I don't want to get into a huge debate over audience management etc only to say that if performing a haunted deck effect where all the heat is on the deck, it would be quite normal in the spectators eyes to want to 'have a look at the deck'
Hence the reason Spooked is perfect for a haunted deck type effect. Im not saying this is the best version (IMHO it is to date) but it is for this effect to be/look as clean before and after the effect. |
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FrenchDrop Inner circle I can name that tune in 1647 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-11-25 07:02, themagiczone wrote: Exactly. I think magicians often mistake politeness for a lack of suspicion. People often say "Nobody's ever asked to see the cards" as if that means nobody's ever suspected the cards were gimmicked. There's a considerable gap in that logic. If no one asks to examine your cards, it could just mean that no one who suspected gaffed cards was sufficiently rude as to demand to examine them if the magician didn't offer. At worst -- absolute worst -- it could mean no one who supsected gaffed cards was sufficiently fooled to even need to see the cards; they knew the cards were gimmicked and could guess how they must be gimmicked. A deck that cuts itself, as if manipulated by invisible forces, is going to lead most thinking spectators today to simply assume it's gimmicked. It must be. They'd love to know how it's gimmicked, but they're not going to demand to examine the deck, because you just don't do that. So they walk away thinking "That deck was gimmicked," but not knowing how, and in that respect they're entertained. But if you can let them cut the deck immediately before it moves by itself, and examine the deck afterwards -- or just go straight into another effect in which the spectator gets to handle the cards freely and see they're not gaffed -- they walk away thinking "That deck wasn't gimmicked -- so how did he do that?" If "Haunted" really fits the above description, my interest is piqued.
"A great magician has said of his profession that its practitioners '… must pound and rack their brains to make the least learning go in, but quarrelling always comes very naturally to them.'” -- Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell
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brainman Special user 970 Posts |
For example people say if you perform the trick STATIC the specs never will find the gimmick.. I disagree. I often work in very private settings where rich russians give a s%&$ to not look at your deck very carefully. And if they find the gimmick - I tell you how loud they will become... I palm my gimmick off. If HAUNTED ist really 100% (I mean 100%)free of gimmick I buy it, if not - I stick to Spooked or Static or...
Best,T |
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Michael Peterson Inner circle is where I'm trapped, because of my 4071 Posts |
If ditching a gimmick or not being able to manage your spectators is a big issue,this type of effect is not for you.
I can't recall the last time a spectator asked to see the deck. All these posts about an effect that no one has yet is silly. I really want to see some reviews before I buy this,maybe someone will start a seperate thread with just reviews of the effect & not a bunch of questions that can't be answered before the effect is out. Mike |
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bowers Inner circle Oakboro N.C. 7024 Posts |
I totally agree with you mike.
too much worrying over something they haven't even got yet. todd |
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Saturn UK Inner circle 2658 Posts |
All this talk about an effect!
I thought that's what we do here, and for once this looks like its shaping up to be worth the talk which is why some including me are so excited about this coming out. I'd love to know where it is though, there have been no updates from Peter for a while (well a few days but it seems ages).
www.saturnmagic.co.uk
#theshopwithstock Pleased to be different! FACEBOOK: www.facebook.com/saturnmagic.co.uk |
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Michael Peterson Inner circle is where I'm trapped, because of my 4071 Posts |
I never said that we could not talk about anything.
I'm just saying all the usual speculation & the ever popular someone else independently developed the same concept or effect( it has happened to all of us. It all turns into a train wreck before the product comes out & usually shortly after,the thread dies. I'm getting crotchety in my old age,feel free to ignore me (it will be just like when I perform). :) Mike |
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Saturn UK Inner circle 2658 Posts |
I think all this frustration is building up due to the amount of time this is taking to come out.
I know you can have delays in anything but in today's age it can't take that long to copy dvd's once the master is done. Anyway hopefully not too long to wait now.
www.saturnmagic.co.uk
#theshopwithstock Pleased to be different! FACEBOOK: www.facebook.com/saturnmagic.co.uk |
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PRINCE Inner circle 1448 Posts |
All the discussions about audience management, gimmicks etc are good and its good that people have so different opinions and views on such matter. What Michael Peterson said about if you feel uncomfortable performing with a gimmick, or if you feel that you are unable to manage your audience then this effect is not for you, I do agree with. The fact is that knowone yet has 'Haunted' so knowone knows the workings, BUT I would rather perform 'Haunted' and at the end be able to give the deck out for examination - even if they don't ask to look at it. A lot of people are very polite when performing and although they are thinking 'it must be something to do with the actual deck, a special deck or something' they will not ask to see it. At the end of the day magic is kind of like a puzzle to the spectators - they will try to work out how it is done. Seeing this type of effect performed can only raise suspicion that 'there must be something special about the deck'.
Now after performing this, what happens when you give the deck to them to 'examine' and they find no gimmicks etc. Your reputation as a magician/performer has just gone up and this effect is probably one that will be talked about for a long time. I would rather do this than just quickly put the cards away and move onto the next trick. If you did this 'and managed your audience well' you will just leave your audience with thoughts that... 'yeah it looked a good trick but obviously it had something special in the cards to make them move' The spectators don't think about this trick anymore, because although they don't know what the actual gimmick is, they know how it was done because it used some type of gimmick - puzzle solved, lets watch at the next trick. What would happen if we perform spooked and after the effect just put the cards away and performed another trick? The same thing as above about your spectators thinking process. BUT the beauty of this is when you give the cards back to them, and they find nothing - then you have just performed magic and not a puzzle. I really hope that 'Haunted' will not be a let done esp with all the hype that has gone on. The haunted deck effect is a very strong, visual and direct effect to perform, and although I enjoy performing spooked I am just hoping that 'Haunted' will be a little superior in relation to no t****d work, but still look and perform as clean as spooked. |
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