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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
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On 2011-10-15 13:28, Dannydoyle wrote: I don't follow you Danny. I think that central government is necessary for good, stable life in the 21st century. I also think that the (reasonably) free market is essential to continue to produce goods and make innovations that support our good, stable life. It seems pretty obvious to me that these are not incompatible beliefs, and probably most people (gdw notwithstanding) hold similar beliefs; the difference is in what the appropriate balance between the two should be. I have no idea what else you are going on about. John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
You said and I quoted it EXACTLY "I don't see why I should be happy to make less for someone else's benefit."
I am simply pointing out that some of the things you desire for the environment can be EASLIY countered by this EXACT line of thinking. Why not apply it across the board? TAX THE RICH is the refrain of the day. Well why should THEY be happy to make less just so someone can benifit? Because they have "enough"? Funny how when it hits us personally that is when we draw the line, and want to make your statement.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
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On 2011-10-15 16:39, Dannydoyle wrote: LOL Danny. If you think you can get at the core of all my opinions with one sentence.... Rather than play an infantile game of "gotcha" why not ask what I mean? I'll try to answer you, but I doubt that you care, now that you are excited about your "gotcha". There are some things for which it is rational and/or ethical to shoulder some of the responsibility. Firefighting is a good example. If I am very lucky I will never need firefighters to come to my home and all of my money will go to someone else's benefit. If I am very unlucky, I will need firefighters to come to my home and my money will cover a tiny part of the expense and other--more lucky--people will pay for the rest. Publicly funded firefighting makes sense because we can all be covered at a reasonable cost. Same goes for policing. And military. And sewage. And roads. And fresh water. And clean air. I think you get the idea. In the example that I was responding too, it was proposed that 100 private sector jobs are more valuable than 1000 public sector jobs. Unlike firefighting, police, sewage and the like, it is nowhere near obvious that this is the case from the point of view of the 1000 people who would otherwise have jobs. Is that better, Danny? Or am I wasting electrons? John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Naw John not playing "gotcha". Rather just parsing words like you so enjoy doing. Not so much fun is it?
I love examples like fire and police, in which nobody but GDW thinks they are not needed. You throw those out as a standby strawman because I NEVER ONCE disputed that we should pay taxes for such services. So lets dispense with the "infantile" games shall we? Or perhaps we could stop dismissing people as "infantile" just because it suits us at the time. Or am I wasting bandwith? Another arrogant superior attitude you assume once you get cornered. So lets pose this as a question John. Are you a "greater good" type? You seem to want us to make sacrafices for "greater good" in other areas. I was simply showing you that I guess things work for the "greater good" until it impacts OUR OWN LIVES, and then the phrase "I don't see why I should be happy to make less for someone else's benefit" slips out. My infantile point John is that this IS the crux of the situation. You want to arrogantly dismiss it because it is easier than dealing with it. You go and mention a whole bunch of crap that is not anywhere near what I am refering to, but want to use it as a strawman arguement. No John that is not what I said at any point in time. Infantile or not John, the fact is that people have differing opinions than yours. Why don't you show me a single post where I said we don't need to pay taxes for any of those things you listed, or admit it is a strawman arguement. (And quite infantile at that.) It really is one or the other John. 100 private secter jobs create more for the economey than 1000 public secter jobs. While the 1000 people may be individually better off, it does not mean that the country as a whole is better off. First you have to take the money FROM the rest of society to even create these jobs in the first place. Then you get very little bang for your buck because MUCH of that money is lost in burocracy. (Or is that an infantile position to take John?) And the net is that you took money out, and only part of it comes back in no matte HOW MUCH THEY SPEND ON WHAT! This is an absolute fact. Now allow for the fact that never did I EVER say that we should not have fire and sewage and all those strawmen you threw into the mix John. Where am I making my infantile mistake?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Danny I never said you did. I was responding to the nonsense you tried to put in my mouth. I have no idea what you believe, Danny.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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RobertSmith Veteran user 330 Posts |
I just want to know where we draw the line?
"People deserve health care." Okay, fine. Do they deserve a house too? If so how big? How many rooms? What I want is for the people who say, "but people deserve...." To just tell me where the line is drawn? When is it okay to say, "No. You haven't earned that?" And if "people" deserve "healthcare, housing" etc shouldn't we be giving these same things to rich people too? |
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RobertSmith Veteran user 330 Posts |
An acquaintance of mine who is a die hard Democrat was complaining about a student in her class being lazy, unmotivated and not getting their work done.
I asked if she had students that worked hard and earned all As. She said yes. I suggested she give those students Bs instead and give the D students a C grade. She scoffed and said I was ridiculous. She said, "that student is lazy and hasn't earned that grade." Yet she can't understand while I'm against wealth redistribution. |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
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On 2011-10-12 21:06, Dannydoyle wrote: Well, apparently not. At least not according to Fox: "Cain's 9-9-9 Plan Would Double the Sales Tax for Residents of Some States, Study Finds" http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/......s-study/ Herman Cain has made the his 9-9-9 plan the cornerstone of his economic policy pitch on the campaign trail, saying he would wipe out all federal taxes and start over with a simple mix of income, business and sales taxes, all at 9 percent. But under such a plan, sales taxes wouldn't necessarily be as low as 9 percent. People in most states would pay more, when state and local sales taxes are included, and in some cases, customers could even end up paying twice as much in sales tax, according to a new analysis by the Tax Foundation. The study, which was done at the request of FoxNews.com, found that the combined sales tax in all but four states would rise to at least double digits. The analysis doesn't address whether the average taxpayer would pay more or less in taxes overall under Cain's plan, but it suggests some shoppers could suffer sticker shock from the federal sales tax.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
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On 2011-10-15 19:55, RobertSmith wrote: Those are all good questions, worthy of serious discussion. John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
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On 2011-10-15 23:12, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: Actually no they are not worthy of discussion when we have a constitution which pretty well spells these things out. We don't have to "discuss" every tiem someone thinks they have a "right". Nope all we have to do is look it up John. Pretty convienent if you ask me.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
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On 2011-10-15 23:33, Dannydoyle wrote: And so how does the Ninth amendment come into play? It seems that not all rights are listed. So how do you look up a right that is not listed? Cut and pasting from Wikipedia: --- Harvard historian Bernard Bailyn gave a speech at the White House on the subject of the Ninth Amendment. He said that the Ninth Amendment refers to "a universe of rights, possessed by the people — latent rights, still to be evoked and enacted into law....a reservoir of other, unenumerated rights that the people retain, which in time may be enacted into law." Similarly, journalist Brian Doherty has argued that the Ninth Amendment "specifically roots the Constitution in a natural rights tradition that says we are born with more rights than any constitution could ever list or specify." ---
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
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On 2011-10-15 23:33, Dannydoyle wrote: You win, Danny. All the answers to the important legal and moral questions are there for you lucky Americans to look up. The rest of we stupid people in other countries will continue to have dialogue and debate over the issues that are important to us. But at least we can sleep at night knowing that Danny Doyle has all the answers in one document--at least for his country. John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
How much does an A cost?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
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On 2011-10-15 23:58, balducci wrote: Yea anything people can manage to dream up is a right?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-10-16 00:43, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: I am so sorry John that the constitution and what it says bothers you so much. But for you Canadian conservatives let me ask you this question. What (If you were an American.) would you think about a police officer going through your sock drawer for no reason? Of course you would want to scream about the 4th amendment and illegal search and seisure. Why is it that you only want to use those amendments that benifit you? Try some consistancy for a change. So you guys think that whatever you think up is a right?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
To defend the lives of the innocent should be seen as the right and moral thing to do. I'm not saying that people who can work and just don't want to deserve anything, cause laziness doesn't earn ****. But if you really can't do for yourself then should you just be allowed to die? And what does that say about those who are indifferent to those deaths? Do they really have the right to call for the execution of others who simply share their own disregard for human life? They are peas in a pod from where I sit.
Also, I know people who work for DSHS here and they are pretty good at spotting malingerers. They have experts who specialize in minimizing the number of fakers trying to milk the system.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
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On 2011-10-16 10:09, Dannydoyle wrote: Your constitution does not bother me at all. In fact it has nothing to do with me. Sorry that non-Americans try to talk at the Café. I had no idea that your constitution prevents us from normal discourse. John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Just to re-state something I've mentioned before: the Constitution does not give Americans any rights whatsoever that other people in other countries don't have. The Constitution simply compels the Federal government to respect the rights that we all already have, as an endowment from our Creator.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Now play victim John. That is always the next play LOL.
I am telling you those "discussions" are moot points because we in our country wrote down what the governments limits are. Not that it is always followed, but it is written down.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-10-16 10:04, Dannydoyle wrote: I don't know. But the 9th amendment appears to be saying that people have latent rights in addition to those explicitly listed in the constitution. I don't know what those latent rights are, and that was my point. Not all rights are listed. You can't look them all up (which is what I thought you said before, unless I misunderstood your earlier post).
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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