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Slide Special user 533 Posts |
"Slashing those programs stopping spending, getting a stronger economy is what will make things better."
Never in history have we pulled out of a depression or recession by slashing programs and stopping spending. In fact just the opposite. Keynesian economics is how we got out of every major economic downturn since the Great Depression. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
And into LOL.
Wanna back that up with some sources? I am curious. I doubt Reagan used that theory, but lets see what ya got.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
I'm not sure about the spending bit, but Reagan wasn't completely averse to raising taxes during the early 80's recession.
Slightly edited excerpt from online: "To counteract the increased deficit caused by the recession, Reagan agreed to a corporate tax increase in 1982. The Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982 instituted a three-year, $100 billion tax hike — the largest tax increase since World War II" Credited source: Green, "Reagan's Liberal Legacy," Washington Monthly," January/February 2003.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
The man net lowered them, but oh well. History is written by what we want to see. Incidently getting out of his recession I believe he actually lowered them, but again whatever.
I am content to wait to see what the rest of OUR country thinks. Your thoughts and spin are not even relevant to to tune of one vote so they are less than meaningless.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-12-02 18:19, Dannydoyle wrote: How about one of Reagan's own advisers? I guess he's spinning too? "Reagan adviser Bruce Bartlett wrote in National Review that "TEFRA raised taxes by $37.5 billion per year", elaborating, "according to a recent Treasury Department study, TEFRA alone raised taxes by almost 1 percent of the gross domestic product, making it the largest peacetime tax increase in American history." $37.5 billion per year for 3 years is a bit over $100 billion, as I said. Facts are facts, Danny. Even inconvenient ones. No matter where they come from. As I read earlier today: "Conservatism requires decisions to be m...... dogma." (Good conservative essay at the link above, BTW.)
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
In other news, Reagan's first year in office saw a 16% gain in federal income tax revenues after his massive tax cuts; in 1982 and 1983, following the cited tax increases, federal revenues leveled off then declined.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-12-02 19:24, LobowolfXXX wrote: Did Reagan cut personal income taxes for 1981? In what way? It's hard to quickly google out the truth on this matter. Over the course of his tenure, the highest personal marginal tax bracket was substantially reduced, but I can't find anything indicating that he lowered personal taxes in the 1981 tax year, before he raised them in the 1982 tax year. Any better info than I have so far found? John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Just in case it slipped by, note my post was talking about corporate taxes and not personal income taxes.
I think it is impossible to prove what effect raising or lowering taxes of any sort will have. What we do know is that the evidence is mixed. Cute picture illustrating growth in real federal revenue on a per capita basis: And a nice article: http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/......revenue/ The above gives two examples when it says tax cuts raised overall (not per capita) revenue. But it also goes on to say: "The common thread is that these were cuts in punitively high marginal rates. They paid off in large part because they removed incentives to shelter income from taxes. The other benefits that supply-siders like to talk about--making people work harder and longer and encouraging capital investment--are there too, but probably not in great enough measure to offset the tax cut. Which is why it's awfully hard to imagine any cut in current tax rates (or the rates that were prevailing when George Bush took office in 2001) that would pay for itself."
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-12-02 18:46, balducci wrote: Where is John and his famous BS detector when we need it? Yea you can cherry pick anything and use a snapshot, but as a net, he lowered tax rates. What you are doing is the equivilant of saying "well Gacy made balloons and was a clown for birthday parties, so he couldn't have possibly killed anyone". Facts are facts, but cherry picking is cherry picking. John... you and your famous picture are on. Go ahead point it out.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
I never said he didn't lower some taxes. In fact, I expressly posted a link to an article that said Reagan lowered personal taxes.
YOU were the person who was cherry picking and refused to believe / reflexively disbelieved a fact that did not fit into your rigid political dogma. That fact being that Reagan DID raise some taxes on certain sectors that were underpaying. The biggest tax increase ever, at the time. If you are truly interested in facts when it comes to the revenue effects of major tax bills enacted under Reagan, you should take a look at the table from the United States Department of the Treasury (Working Paper 81, page 12) reproduced at this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Equity_......_of_1982 Quote:
On 2011-12-02 19:24, LobowolfXXX wrote: Please refer to the table above for a more complete picture of what the effect of the tax changes were.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Another one bites the dust ...
"NO, WE CAIN'T" (I give Drudge Report credit for that turn of phrase - though Drudge may have actually cribbed it from somewhere else.)
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-12-03 09:39, Dannydoyle wrote: When Balducci posted, I was at a magic rehearsal. When you decided to call me out, I was in my bed. What, precisely, do I owe you Danny?
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-12-03 14:52, balducci wrote: The entire premise of tax rate cuts as a potential revenue generator is that they will stimulate economic growth, thereby increasing government revenues by creating a increased economic base from which to receive taxes. Thus, the sentence: "The study makes note that these government revenue estimates do not take into account the effect of the bills on GDP, and therefore, are not inclusive of resulting increases in revenue that would occur from an increase in GDP" suggests that the numbers posted in the link are pretty useless. I think we can all agree that taking a higher percentage of X will result in a bigger number than taking a lower percentage of X. The question is what happens when you take a lower percentage of X and compare it to a higher percentage of Y.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
That's true. At least, certainly it is something that has to be factored in. Though it is probably difficult and maybe impossible to do that in any accurate way ... I mean, how do you determine what caused the GDP to increase ... was it tax policy, the general economy, war spending, etc.? So consider the graph that was posted earlier "growth in real federal revenue on a per capita basis". It seems to me that is fairly informative.
Anyway, my main point is just that your earlier post appeared to talk only about "federal income tax revenues" ... that's not the be all and end all of federal revenue. The other taxation (e.g., corporate taxation) also comes into play. As I said much earlier, the evidence that tax cuts raise revenue is really mixed. Sometimes it does; sometimes it doesn't. I think the short article at the link I gave is a reasonable explanation of why this is: http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/......revenue/
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-12-03 16:59, balducci wrote: I agree, on pretty much all counts.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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