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KOTAH Inner circle 2289 Posts |
Information below was posted on the Ripper Case book message board by Neal Shelden 1- 14-2004
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Last year, in searching for Mary Jane Kelly’s brother in the 2nd Brigade Scots Guards musters records at the PRO, I made this account of all the names and numbers of Kelly‘s and McCarthy‘s and variants. I have also added some notes. 2nd Brigade Scots Guards musters records - from 1885- to mid 1888. 6192 James Kelly (discharged) 6935 James Kelly (joined at 30) 7734 James Kelly 5857 James Kelly 5352 William Kelly (on 1881 census shown as age 27, born Westmeath, IRE) 5786 Patrick Kelly (joined reserve) 7607 Patrick Kelly (deserted) 6374 Michael Kelly (on 1881 census shown as age 21, born Stirling, Scotland) 7623 Robert Kelly (join reserve) 7754 Patrick O’Kelly (joined reserve) Mary jane Kelly claimed her brother Henry (Nicknamed ' Johnto' ) Was a member of the 2nd Brigade Scots Guards . An interesting connection now appears to be in the word hell , in the rom hell letter. If printed in lower case, and inverted; the word hell becomes the numbers 7734. As wittnesed inthe Brigade rooster . records, 7734 was a man named James Kelly. The name John in Welsh, which Mary Kelly spoke fluently, is Jams (Pronounced James or Jaims ). John, James and Jack are all interchangable. Residents at MIller's Court said Mary had received letters from her brother Johnno, so he knew her address. On the night she was killed, residents woken from their sleep ; said they heard a faint cry of " Oh murder !" Might this not have been something else , such as " Oh brother or brudder? The savage way in which Mary Kelly was killed indicates it was very personal. Most likely someone close or having ties to her. Was the Ripper letter From hell, saying in its opening line who had written it? Was it from 7734 aka James Kelly? Had Johnto enlisted under the name of James ? War after all is hell. As a Catholic, did guilt and embarrassment over the trade his sister had taken up, fester and turn to hatred. Had Johnno come to White Chaple to exact revenge ? Had Mary Jane Kelly been butchered in a fit of rage by her own brother John / Jack. Had he killed some of the other women as well to gradually hone his skill ? Some of the other victims had been seen in the company of military men. Mr, Chris Scott unearthed the following article : Times (London) 12 January 1887 POLICE At Marylebone, Henry Love, 25, a private in the 2nd Battalion, Scots Guards, was charged with being drunk and assaulting Mary Ann Kelly, living at Baker's Court, East street. It was shown that the prosecutrix was passing along Duke street, Manchester square, between 1 and 2 o'clock that morning when the prisoner, who was drunk, crossed the road, and withou the least provocation slapped her face. She asked him why he had done it, when he attempted to kick her. In this he did not succeed, but he managed to throw her into the road. A constable who saw what took place came up and apprehended the prisoner. On the way to the station he offerd the constable £5 to give him another chance, as he had been previously convicted of a similar offence. He could not give a reason for his conduct. The prisoner, in defence, now said that he was the worse for drink and did not remember what happened. A colour sergeant in the regiment gave the prisoner a bad character, and said that in August last he was sentenced to a month's imprisonment for assaulting a woman. Mr. De Rutzen sentenced the prisoner to two months' imprisonment. If Henry Love and James Kelly served with one another in the second Batallion / Brigade; could the fact a brother in arms was imprisoned for assaulting Mary have triggered rage leading to her demise? Remember too the markings carved into the flesh of Mary Kelly. Long thought to be the letter 'V' two of them. Some investigators felt them might form the letter M. Consider instead that they represent Chevrons rather than letters. Two cheverons indicate the rank of corporal. Had her killer identified himself via the letter From Hell and v\by carving his rank into her body? What rank did James Kelly, 7734 hold during his time in the military? I have not been able to discover it. Perhaps othe Ripperologists out there will pick up the gauntlet and close the case for good. Kotah |
cirrus Inner circle his minions made 1751 Posts |
Wow nice.
It is possible. Other serial killers have had almost the same motivation. Ted Bundy killed women because he felt betrayed by his mother and grandmother. So it could be possible that her brother killed all the other women and kept her for the last victim. I think in the military that he would have learned techniques for killing people properly. So it could be possible. |
KOTAH Inner circle 2289 Posts |
For the longest time, aJack The Ripper thread was very much alive and well here on the Café'
It seems the collective interest span among bizarrists is quite brief. If there had been a doll in the room of one of the victime, then perhaps the interest might return. Kotah |
Godzilla Inner circle Tied & Untied Witches on 5316 Posts |
Hi Kotah,
having a friend working on a new JTR routine! Started out as a story line to a VICTIM ??? (She later will be a story line to herself)! But,decided to go back to Jack! Jack is alive and well...Sort of ! You may see here in the future...just wanted to share with you! No Dolls ! -G
"If you watch Godzilla backwards, it's about a big ass lizard who helps rebuild a half burnt-down city, then moonwalks back into the ocean"
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Matthew St. Cyr Special user The Dark Woods of New England 793 Posts |
I think it's all cyclical (Is that a word? I think it is....if not, I hereby proclaim that it is!)
Perhaps conversations about The Ripper will come back around.....hey maybe this thread will be the catalyst!
The Wonder Lies In The Dark Between The Stars. . .
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KOTAH Inner circle 2289 Posts |
G & Matthew, all encouraging thoughts you have posted. I look forward to anything Ripper themed, new stories effects etc.
Concerning dolls ( A popular theme on the Café' what with OUtlaw and LEbanon Circle popularity. WHat if an antique doll brought back from one of her trips to Paris had been found by police under Mary Kelly's bed. The Doll bloodied and in an almost comatose stae had been a wittness to the brutal murder, tormented by the memory. WHat if , like an awaking coma victim, the doll were able to answer questions about the crime and the killer by blinking its eyes one for yes and twice foe no! Consider for a moment what a powerful routine that would be! I have written doll routines before, and know how well they play to an audience. Leslie Melville performed his stage version of my tale The Doll collector for audiences in the UK for two years. Kotah |
Matthew St. Cyr Special user The Dark Woods of New England 793 Posts |
I just had an interesting thought....which maybe has been brought up before...but I didn't see:
What if a Ripper Seance was held and the purpose of the seance was to try to reveal the identity of The Ripper....and instead of discovering the human identity of The Ripper, it's discovered that it is a malevolent spirit that has been using humans as it's killing puppets for centuries. Sometimes the entity likes to cause mass carnage, such as when he possessed the body of a yound Turk named Vlad Tepes. Sometimes he likes to play little cat and mouse games, such as when he possessed the body of a gentleman and stalked the streets of Whitechaple in the late 19th Century. He has been at the root of many of the greatest unsolved murders in history, as well as many of the most famous bloodbaths. Now that the Entity has been awakened.....who knows what he'll do next! I was just kinda thinking out loud there....but I thought that the concept of The Ripper actually being some sort of eternal evil that travels about was interesting. Again, maybe this has been explored here before and I missed it....
The Wonder Lies In The Dark Between The Stars. . .
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Stoltz Veteran user 400 Posts |
Time is on my side~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIE2GAqnFGw |
Matthew St. Cyr Special user The Dark Woods of New England 793 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-10-12 13:01, Stoltz wrote: Ya know, now that I think of it, that IS a lot like the plot of the movie FALLEN!!!!
The Wonder Lies In The Dark Between The Stars. . .
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KOTAH Inner circle 2289 Posts |
I Hope the following will be permitted to appear here on the Café. It is the message found scrawled on the wall at Goulston Street.
The original message read : 'THE JUWES ARE NOT THE MEN THAT WILL BE BLAMED FOR NOTHING' This message is actually an anagram which says: THAT *** WILL BE BLAMED THE ATENT JUST MEN FOR NOTHING Aninteresting discovery to me, and yet another light inwhich facts concerning the JTR case may be seen in KOtah |
KOTAH Inner circle 2289 Posts |
The word which has been edited sounds a lot like fore.
K. |
cirrus Inner circle his minions made 1751 Posts |
I simply love jack the ripper. He's my favourite serial killer. The zodiac killer is nice too, and I wonder why there are no bizarre magic routines about him.
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Matthew St. Cyr Special user The Dark Woods of New England 793 Posts |
Most interesting Kotah. It would be most interesting as part of an effect to have note that was found that also matched the
inscription on the wall on Goulston St. When the note is held near candle-light the writing is seen to physically change from the anagram to it's true meaning. What do you think?
The Wonder Lies In The Dark Between The Stars. . .
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KOTAH Inner circle 2289 Posts |
Matthew, I like your idea very much, a really visual kicker to a Ripper routine . Very nice indeed.
Unlike cirrus, I do not claim a serial killer as being my 'favorite'. JTR and The Zodiac are among my top most interesting. I have worked on the Zodiac case for almost two years now. I am fascinated as to why he chose 34o symbols for his cypher. Twenty lines of seven teen symbols. 34o identifies December in the perpetual calendar. Sagittarius, the hunter. 352 symbols would be required to indicate DEC 18, which was his birthday. Perhaps other ciphers will pin point other clues and information he hid in plain sight!? I Have decoded all twenty lines of the340 Ciher as well as two other messages the zodiac revealed, including his identity and placement of the bombs he planted. Some believe I am absolutely wrong, others feel I am correct THere may be others out there in our ranks who also enjoy the quest. KOtah |
Matthew St. Cyr Special user The Dark Woods of New England 793 Posts |
I've been quite interested in Zodiac as well. There is something that I find so incredibly fascinating in the minds of these people.
The Wonder Lies In The Dark Between The Stars. . .
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KOTAH Inner circle 2289 Posts |
Matthew, aquestion for you or any one who might have the answer.
Cheri Jo Bates, her full name was Cheri Josephine Bates. Does any one know if her friends or class mates may havecalled her Jocelyn, a cuter version of Josephine? Kotah |
Matthew St. Cyr Special user The Dark Woods of New England 793 Posts |
Sadly I do not know if they had a nickname for her....but I'm doing some searching.....
The Wonder Lies In The Dark Between The Stars. . .
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KOTAH Inner circle 2289 Posts |
Concerning the anagram for the Goulston St. message, a bit of clarifucation.
Atent was a word used in this time period which was akin to canny; conveying the meaning of men who were prudent, cautious and astute. Clearly painting them as the good guys, and the victims as something else. Kotah |
Matthew St. Cyr Special user The Dark Woods of New England 793 Posts |
I did actually have to go and look up the word atent! But hey, now I've got a new vocabulary word!
The Wonder Lies In The Dark Between The Stars. . .
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