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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts 
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Never mind.
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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts
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Oh no this thread started off exciting and now is getting boring
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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Danyel Loyal user Italy 293 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-10-14 10:02, Christian & Katalina wrote: Yep, that is my point -I would only add: "they see things which look fishy or underdeveloped from their point of view". I mean: they must not in fact know what's going wrong from our POV. We need their critical attention, I believe, exactly ***because*** they don't know the mechanism -and still they can point out its weaknesses.
'People who lean on logic and philosophy and rational exposition
end by starving the best part of the mind' -William Butler Yeats |
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Olympic Adam Inner circle 1259 Posts
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I wasn't going to release my boring new trick but now I feel that there is a market for it I will!
thanks for the words here, some new specific things I hadn't considered and some things I thought would be true so it's nice to see some more experienced folk having the same thoughts (also some funny posts) For me it is half the challenge creating a good order, a lot of people could do with reading this thread and watching others, a row of good effects does not make a good show. The only thing I can think to add at this time which comes from various performance fields is that people forget sometimes when the 'performance' actually starts and finishes. Demonstrated by musical acts who set up in front of the audience and sound check etc, really spoils it for me, and when an orchestra start packing up their music stands RIGHT after the last note. This applies for me also in this field and can help structure a good performance. Not the start of the first effect, not when you introduce yourself, not when you walk out in front of them, more like the very first interaction the audience can possibly have with you, the whole aura of performance needs to begin so that when you do actually start, they are already watching. After all that you can do your boring effect, works a treat! (we can't always do things like that but in an ideal world I think it adds volumes to any kind of staging)
Protection for mind readers and mentalists: http://tricksofthemind.com
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Christian & Katalina Elite user 407 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-10-14 12:32, Danyel wrote: agreed.
Milbourne Christopher Award for Mentalism 2011
The Annemann Award for Menatalism 2016 Author of "Protoplasm" Close-up Mentalism |
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Stephen Young Inner circle Thought Illusions 3933 Posts
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I also took the word "boring" in the initial posting to mean either a slower paced or more relaxed effect. Not boring in it's literal sense.
And I'd be surprised if anyone really thought that a boring (literal meaning) effect was being advocated. It's a shame that a very good topic may get bogged down needlessly Steve |
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Lior Inner circle 1962 Posts
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Kambiz, BoB and Dr. Spector are giving here some of the best advice you will get from the forum
While most of the people here are comming from the magic world ,they tend to think that mentalism is like magic Well, it isn't. Maybe some methods are the same but that is all. Building a show is not about quiq or long effects, its about theater, about the audience , about emotions etc Lior
The Lior Touch
https://1amagic.com/ PEA Dave Lederman Award 2009 PEA Dunninger Award 2001 Life Time Achivmeant IUPA 2016 |
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Billy-one Inner circle IOWA 1028 Posts
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Lior,
How is that unlike magic? Respect, Billy |
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Lior Inner circle 1962 Posts
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I forgot to mention Christian & Katalina for great advice as well.
Billy-one : I love magic. And there are many good magicians. But magic effects are like acrobatics effects. They generate WOW from the audience Mentalisem generate much more Lior
The Lior Touch
https://1amagic.com/ PEA Dave Lederman Award 2009 PEA Dunninger Award 2001 Life Time Achivmeant IUPA 2016 |
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Christian & Katalina Elite user 407 Posts
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Lior,
Thanks, and next time I will be matching your bets on the Roulette table.
Milbourne Christopher Award for Mentalism 2011
The Annemann Award for Menatalism 2016 Author of "Protoplasm" Close-up Mentalism |
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Billy-one Inner circle IOWA 1028 Posts
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Lior,
I respectfully disagree. Respect, Billy |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts
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Billy-
Kindly explain what you are disagreeing with and why. Lior is one of the top mentalists in the world and certainly knows what he is talking about. Good thoughts, Bob |
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Billy-one Inner circle IOWA 1028 Posts
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Mr. Cassidy,
I respect Lior and his body of work, however I disagree with anyone that says magic "wows" an audience, as if excluding any other impact on the audience. I have witnessed magic making grown men cry (docc Hilfords ball in tube), I have made couples feel united, I have swooned women with magic (not bragging), and seen magicians (myself included, again not bragging) fill a room with laughter and joy. Yes, Magic WOWs an audience..but it also does so much more! Mentalism, can have a diffrent effect on people then magic. Yet, diffrent magic effects can have diffrent effects on people. Diffrent performance styles can alter reactions, ect. ect. My eyes welled up with tears when I went to my first art museum, also when I watched Forrest Gump for the first time....diffrent mediums that evoked the same emotions, yet Lior believes that mentalism is seperate then magic in that mentalism brings more to the table? Sorry, but in my opinion he cant be more wrong. Respect, Billy |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts
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I think you are misinterpreting Lior. You should remember that English isn't his first language. I don't believe Lior thinks that mentalism "brings more to the table" than magic (although it certainly does create a different impression in the minds of an audience), just that mentalism and magic are fundamentally different art forms. It seems that many posters here, particularly newcomers, don't really understand that.
Good thoughts, Bob |
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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12968 Posts
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Billy
Just because one says one thing doesn't exclude all other things. I think magic wows an audience but I would be meaning it shakes them up. By the very nature everyone interprets things differently all else is implied. Really, how can you nitpic Lior. Watch his video. I mean if this is all you can come up with to respectfully disagree you should perhaps think through things more. I'll say if you want to post on the Café there are plenty of posts to reply to that could use the response. Seriously. John |
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innercirclewannabe Inner circle Ireland 1597 Posts
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Is Billy the new "Thomas"? Or are they one of the same?
Just my weekend ramblings.....
Tá sé ach cleas má dhéanann tú sé cuma mhaith ar cheann.
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Billy-one Inner circle IOWA 1028 Posts
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John,
Again, I never said anything in regards to Liors body of work. He is good. It just seemed like he missed the mark on his reply to me, regarding the diffrence between magic and mentalism. I didn't want to write a long response stating the many reasons I disagree, as they didn't and don't matter. I think we need to remember that mentalism is a performing art, it can create what we want it to (assuming the performance chops are good enough). Magic can do the same and this is coming from a card worker, not someone who does large performance pieces. P.S. who is thomas? Respect, Billy |
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Lior Inner circle 1962 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-10-14 15:15, mastermindreader wrote: Thanks Bob You understand me. Don't get me wrong Billy, I love magic and I do magic from time to time. ( after I did some mentalism) But most magicians are just technician and offer nothing to their audience I think it is 5% of good magicians and 92% not so good My English is not good enough to express all my thoughts about the art. But all the rest here do it very well Lior
The Lior Touch
https://1amagic.com/ PEA Dave Lederman Award 2009 PEA Dunninger Award 2001 Life Time Achivmeant IUPA 2016 |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts
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I remember Lior lecturing in London at Tabula Mentis one year, and it was massively clear how much he loves mentalism and the talent and fun that drives what he does forwards...there's a lot of power and energy when he shared his thinking with us...it was great...
for me, magic is sometimes more of a show and tell, than a sharing...even the patter is a constant update of what is going on "so...we'll take your card and pop it roughly halfway into the deck..." yes, I know! I have eyes! I can see that..tell me something interesting or talk to me like a human being... I know its not always like that, I love my card magic and mentalism (lennart, lewis jones, basil horwitz's stuff in particular).. just like mentalism can just be a huge ego engorgement..."ooooh look at me and my facial hair!". Lior doesn't have facial hair - but if he did, he's have one of the best beards in the business!
I've asked to be banned
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Billy-one Inner circle IOWA 1028 Posts
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Lior,
I respect and agree fully with your idea that most magicians are "bad" and technicians (and bad technicians). However, on the other end the of spectrum, I think most mentalists are equally bad, yet instead of being technicians they are just socially awkward (not to say many magicians are not). Not to open a diffrent can of worms, but the art of magic and mentalism often pull from the same pool. Many times these people lack general social skills, leading to bad performers. Yet, the diffrence in mentalism versus magic at a technical level can validate the idea that magicians are worse presenters. This is due to the fact that a person can sit in a basement and practice palming a coin until its perfect, where a mentalist has to interact with people to "perfect" the routine. The diffrence can create better performers in mentalism, yet this is not often the case and only really subject to casual entertainers. Respect, Billy |
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Posted: Oct 14, 2011 04:02 pm 
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