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David Mills New user Central Texas 35 Posts |
Hey, Folks...
I've been slugging away at the "Standard Vanish" (p. 22 of Ch. III, Bobo's "Modern Coin Magic") for about three or four weeks and I've run up against a few walls. I'm looking for help on a couple of specific points and I'll take all suggestions, including, "Keep practicing, Dave..." 1) When I practice in short sleeves, the act of palming causes my forearm muscles to flex slightly which catches my eye in the mirror. In contrast, a *real* transfer (drop) of the coin into the left hand causes no such muscle group to move. Am I doing something wrong or ...? 2) The best way I've found for covering such movements -- and some slight finger flexing of the R 1st finger and thumb while I try to secure the coin in CP, is a small scooping movement of the entire left forearm, as though scooping upward with the right hand in the left palm (I start with coin about waist level when standing and such a scooping movement ends with the hand just below chest level). The larger movement seems to cover the smaller movement of the right hand/arm, though I feel it's probably an amateurish cheat and doesn't quite look necessary. The only good demonstration of the "Standard Vanish" I've found so far on the Web is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U2BbLffLZw (and what a sweet demo it is!). 'Looking for any other tips or diagnoses of what I've described... Thanks! david |
Atom3339 Inner circle Spokane, WA 3242 Posts |
Well, I would say a larger movement covering a smaller movement is never considered amatereush. It's a principle for effective magic.
Next, This is NOT an easy vanish. Standard does not mean simple or even that everyone can do it. It was a vanish Bobo used fairly frequently, thus one of HIS standards. The Cl****c P**m is difficult for many people, if not most! Page 1, Bobo's, the CP is described by Bobo himself as "one of the most difficult of all concealments to master..." This isn't said to discourage you, it's being realistic. Fortunately there have many threads in this forum regarding the CP. Yes, just search CP and you will most likely find your answers.
TH
Occupy Your Dream |
David Mills New user Central Texas 35 Posts |
Atom -- thanks for the encouragement!
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jim ferguson Veteran user Ayrshire, Scotland 386 Posts |
Hi there David.
To be honest, the demo in that clip isn't the best of examples. Anyway, the concept of the larger movement covering the smaller movement can be used to good effect in this (and many other) coin vanishes. Ideally the coin should be passed to the left hand so the right can do something - picking up another coin, a pen, pulling back the sleeves or snapping the fingers etc. Just before the right hand reaches the left the coin should be palmed. With your description of the muscles in your forearm flexing while palming, Im inclined to think you may be using too much force to press the coin into the palm. Not much actual force (or pressing) is required, and it may surprise you how delicate you can actually be. I recommend that you practice placing the coin into the proper palming position using the two middle fingers of your right hand, without trying to make it look like a vanish. Once you have got this down you will find learning the vanish much easier. The finger flexing of the thumb and forefinger you mention is actually very common when learning to CP, so you're certainly not alone, we've all been there. The best advice I can give on this is to try touching the tip of the forefinger to the tip of the thumb (lightly) when practicing. This helps to minimise the finger and thumb motions. Hope this is of some use and good luck with your vanish. It'll be worth the practice. jim |
MS New user 84 Posts |
I honestly don't like most Bobo´s technique to coin magic. Study Al Goshman´s vanish, Schneider´s work and David Roth´s material.
I read Bobo like 15 times, and I still do it just for fun, but his mechanics arent as good as other in my opinion.
Support my work , thanks .
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
There are many ways to exact a good vanish and while the Standard Vanish is OK I guess, there are many that are better and would probably better serve your purpose.
If you're still very interested in this particular vanish, perhaps someone here might re-read the old Bobo's description and post an updated view of it, and maybe in the background here offer some clearer explanation as to the points that thwart you. Oh, and welcome to the Café, David.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
Dr_J_Ayala Inner circle In search of Vlad Dracul and his 2169 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-10-31 08:55, MS wrote: Many of the techniques used by the others that you mentioned were based on the work from Bobo - they just altered some of the techniques to make it work for them. As for the Standard Vanish, I think the posts from Atom and Jim Ferguson sum it up pretty well. I will say that I would not worry about getting caught by muscles flexing - I cannot say as I have ever heard of this happening. As for the CP, try placing the coin in different positions to see if one works better than another for you. I have used the Standard Vanish for a long time and it just took time, but I also have no problems executing a CP. It bears repeating that the CP is difficult to master, and some may be able to do it, others will not. Done well at the right time, the Bobo Standard Vanish is a very neat and effective vanish. That video from the link was horrible. Done as described, the coin never touches the left hand as it does in the video. If you look at the very next vanish after the Bobo Standard Vanish on p. 23 called Simple Vanish, you are doing essentially the same thing, but without the fingers curling. I have seen many magicians perform the Simple Vanish and in trying to secure the coin into CP, they end up inadvertently performing the Standard Vanish. It all comes down to figuring out which position for CP works for you in your hands. Another person to search for on this forum is Ben Salinas - he may be able to give you a few finer points on that particular vanish as well. Ben did an excellent job in transferring the Bobo material from book to DVD form. |
NicholasD Inner circle 1458 Posts |
IMO, the problem with the Standard Vanish is that the coin is being classic palmed when the spectator is burning your hands the most. In addition, there's too much movement of the right hand just to put a coin into the other hand. Having said that, when I first began studying coin magic, Bobo was the book to have, so I used the Standard Vanish. However, I abandoned it after learning other vanishes.
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Dan Efran Regular user Pittsburgh, PA 150 Posts |
I agree, there are stronger vanishes that are easier to learn.
There's a lot of good stuff in Bobo's book, but often under misleading names. Personally I recommend you drop his so-called "Standard Vanish", don't look back, and instead work on what he calls "A Coin Vanish". |
Atom3339 Inner circle Spokane, WA 3242 Posts |
David, IMO the best coin vanish to start out with is Al Schneider's Basic Vanish.
TH
Occupy Your Dream |
amakar Loyal user 235 Posts |
The key to any good vanish isn't some much the palm method (CP, FP, EG,Crimp) as what the palming hand does next.
I've never worried about the muscles flexing differently as a tell...since if the coin vanishes, the audience assumes the coin is in the other hand. So by picking up an object, going to the pocket for some Woofle Dust or any other legitimate action helps sell the empty hand. For a good example of this, take a look at Gadabout Coins Revisited. (http://www.thinklikeaconjurer.com/all24rbps/gadabout/) I cite this trick often because it has a strong focus on the basics. In Gadabout Coins Revisited, the Well Vanish may seem odd if done the first time. Since you condition the viewer twice before you do the vanish, the 3rd time you put the coins in the left hand, the Well Vanish goes unnoticed. ...and the trick is moving along so that always helps compared to the single shot YouTube Vanish sequences. A simple vanish that I've always liked is to display the coin in the right hand in finger palm. Turn your hand over placing the right thumb on the coin retaining it in finger palm. Remember to bring the thumb back to avoid the vanishing thumb problem. |
Dan Efran Regular user Pittsburgh, PA 150 Posts |
Quote:
A simple vanish that I've always liked is to display the coin in the right hand in finger palm. Yeah, that's another excellent method. You don't have to do anything fancy if you mimic natural actions and timing. |
David Mills New user Central Texas 35 Posts |
Thanks to all for the great tips!
A few folks have mentioned they felt the Standard Vanish wasn't especially easy. Anyone care to touch on what made that one especially tricky? FWIW, I have run across Vinny's Rice Krispies retention vanish ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6cup1QnX7c ) and I'm hooked. Think I'll give the Standard Vanish a rest and see how far I get with snap/crackle/pop. It seems very straight forward! Thanks again for your comments. Marion / especially have enjoyed watching your various contributions on YouTube, etc. and really appreciate your encouragement of new folks! :) |
Atom3339 Inner circle Spokane, WA 3242 Posts |
It's CPing the coin that makes it so difficult.
TH
Occupy Your Dream |
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