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anthony-in-japan New user 23 Posts 
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Apologies if this in in the wrong forum. I will move if necessary.
Anyhow I do a lovely little one handed sponge ball using a T....well you know what I'm using. After the vanish I always open my hand very wide, spread my fingers, and show the back of the hand to lock in the idea that I cant be simple hiding the ball behind my hand. Most of the time it goes great, and people love it. However... Just occasionally I will get one person who says "Oh that's easy, he tucked it between two fingers behind his hand". Everyone else simply believes him, and they all think they know how its done, and the effect is ruined. Even though they are wrong. Is it my fault, because I'm not showing the open hand enough for the image to really take hold? Or could it be that some people just aren't that observant. Any advice what to do in this situation? I don't want to run after them saying "No no don't you remember, I had my fingers open. (not very "cool" is it?) I don't want to repeat the trick again for obvious reasons (although a work colleague has seen me do it 14 times and he is still stumped). |
Patrick Differ Inner circle 1540 Posts
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I was just about to start another topic on this very subject.
Not so much on how to convince them that my hand is empty, but more on how I can get myself to slow down a bit. I'm reading through "Sonata" by Tamariz, and in it, he incudes his salute to Slydini. And Tamariz quotes Slydini once, very importantly. He quotes what Slydini told him, or what he remembers Slydini saying... "Take your time."
Will you walk into my parlour? said the Spider to the Fly,
Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy; The way into my parlour is up a winding stair, And I've a many curious things to show when you are there. Oh no, no, said the little Fly, to ask me is in vain, For who goes up your winding stair -can ne'er come down again. |
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anthony-in-japan New user 23 Posts
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Well slowing down was one thing that took its time with me, and I still need to think about it with every trick that I do, because I do rush things sometimes.
I do believe, however, that due to the number of people who are amazed/surprised by the trick that my timing is ok at least on this effect, but I mustn't be too cocky and I have to consider that I'm STILL too fast... hmmm |
Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3691 Posts
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S. David Walker always told his pitchmen students to "slow down a lot, and give a lot of pauses for people to catch up with you, and when you think you have it slow enough, pull back another 50%."
The most important thing is making sure the spectator has time to register agreement with all such important premises of the argument. You not only have to show your hands empty slowly, but you then have to pause and let it sink in, and get the spectators to mentally assent or agree to the thing you want them to remember. |
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Josh Chaikin Inner circle Kansas City 1430 Posts
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I'll return to Tamariz for a moment, but The Magic Way this time. He explains the "theory of false solutions" in there (an expansion on the work of Ascanio and others). It's fine to keep your fingers spread wide to really show there's nothing there, but if they're not remembering you doing that, you have a problem.
What Tamariz would do in a case like that, as he explains with a coin routine, is using an akward grip for a few seconds, to make the audience think that the ball is clipped behind your fingers, then spreading them. That way they have the thought at the time, but then they're proven wrong. At the end of the routine, they won't necessarily remember the akward grip, just that clipping couldn't be a possibility (the parenthesis of forgetfulness, as Ascanio calls it - more on that can be found in The Structural Conception of Magic). |
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anthony-in-japan New user 23 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-10-31 03:43, Josh Chaikin wrote: Josh...I love this idea. Thank you for sharing it. I will try exactly this the next few times I do this trick. Thanks to every one who helped so far. I get it.....slow down.... 
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-10-31 00:58, anthony-in-japan wrote: That's two problems. 1) someone felt a need to say something of that sort, an audience rapport / management issue and a potential second problem... 2) the routine leaves some people with a false impression of what you really are doing and offers a moment where they feel a need to say something. The first is more likely worth your efforts exploring as a performer. The second item is not related to the first unless you are doing feints of the sort Ramsay used where you use that approach to create a cognitive blind spot (Tamariz is calling it parentheses of forgetfulness) which requires lots of audience awareness.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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anthony-in-japan New user 23 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-11-02 20:17, Jonathan Townsend wrote: When this occurs it's *after* the effect not during it. If some one said "It's between your finger" during the performance, I would have no problem with that, because I would be able to blow that theory immediately. I need to be very selective with what I do because I'm usually in a situation, where I have to use simple English (i.e. a work event for Japanese people using only English). The sponge ball trick (mostly) passes this criteria, because it is quite captivating, with very few words. If its just in my own time, it's easier, because I can talk more (i.e. I can use Japanese). |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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Hey Anthony, that's very cool and cogent too.
Would you make a video of your routine using the English patter and maybe we can help with a few ideas so that there's less chance of you getting that reaction? Just a webcam and youtube clip would likely give us an idea of what's happening from the audience perspective. You've already done all the hard work - the rest should be easy with some feedback from the folks here. What we need to see is the routine in English and let us know what they are talking about with the "finger clip" so we get an idea what those few audience members who said stuff were talking about.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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anthony-in-japan New user 23 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-11-02 21:10, Jonathan Townsend wrote: Good idea! I'll do it, but I'll need a day or two (busy work load - Two young children etc etc). Stay tuned..... |
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anthony-in-japan New user 23 Posts
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Ha ha I made the video to show you guys, but in the processs of watching it back some of the mistakes I was making became very clear. So I'm going to sharpen up the trick a bit and I may post a vid later.
Thanks Jonathan, filming myself was just what I needed!! (very different to checking in the mirror) |
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RJE2 Veteran user 383 Posts
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Once you have figured out that you have done everything that you can do to get the routine as good as possible, then you will still have to accept the fact that there may always be somebody watching who wants to spoil it for you. It happens.
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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@RJE- when actually working in the performing arts one quickly learns about hecklers and dealing with the discourteous. It's a necessary skill and need not interfere with ones focus on clarity of effect and moving the action along so the audience can enjoy the show.
AiJ - congrats and best wishes with your work. Ask those questions when they come up. Folks here have lots of perspective and experience to draw upon.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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RJE2 Veteran user 383 Posts
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Jonathon, I have been working in the performing arts for about 30 years now as a magician and a standup comedian. I work arena stag shows filled with drunks to one night comedy bar gigs to strip clubs as well as the more gentile after dinner, corporate, and other adult shows along with family and children's shows. I am familiar with a "rough crowd" and know how to handle it quite well.
I have spent a lot of time in the trenches. You might say that you open your mouth at one of my adult shows at your own peril. The response will be appropriate (on a scale from "gentle" to "they will crawl away and die now") and timely. I would have already read the audience and will know what response will be the most effective and keep them on my side and entertained during the time I spend correcting the offender's behaviour. Not every offender is trying to be malicious (in fact I think I have only ever had one of those), nor is every response. The "punishment" fits the crime. That said, my point was simply that you can be on the top of your game, doing everything right and still there can be someone acting like a jerk in the audience. It's life is all. And, as you said, we have to deal with it. All the best. |
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-10-31 00:58, anthony-in-japan wrote: Focus their attention and suspicion on the other hand. You think that I'm not serious? Hell I am. Your problem is an entertainment problem. Take them away from the challenging spirit into sharing a magic moment and focus on the hand where the sponge ball should be. Look at Roger Klause "In Concert" for his ball to the spectator's sleeve and look at the way he claps after placing the sponge in the left hand. Then look at the way Troy Hooser sticks the ball in the T.....ip. That's already an improvement. Now if you use Troy's technique and Roger's clapping, you're further. However consider using a Sanada Gimmick and Roger Klause's clapping as magical gesture: no one will question the upper hand.... ... and this is only an example to illustrate my point
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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The way to nonplus and squelch that particularly obnoxious but ever present individual, who with his smattering of the commoner slights always knows "exactly how it is done." is to speak a line of Latin to him and carry on.
:)
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » Thinking they know how is enough to spoil the magic. (0 Likes) | |
Posted: Oct 31, 2011 04:58 am 
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