Hi,

I'm currently rehearsing my illusions but I'd like to hear some thoughts and opinions from others, since rehearsal happens without 'a crowd'

I would start with a Fire Cage (wich I'm currently fixing up, since it isn't mine) after the fire cage I would
move on to a Sub Trunk done VERY fast, then moving on to the Hindu Basket and finishing with an Assistant Revenge.

I've been adviced not to put the Sub Trunk and Assistant Revenge in the same act, but I got a great deal on the Assistant Revenge and I already had the Sub Trunk..

This would be my first Illusion act and the hardest one (Sub Trunk) I've been rehearsing for months solo, and since 2 weeks started doing it with an assistant..

I believe Illusions that have been around for a while (Sub Trunk & Fire Cage) have to be done very fast to keep it interesting, since most people have seen these atleast once..

Let me know if this set would work and what I would have to keep in mind.

The assistant revenge can be VERY angle problematic... or else it becomes slow... you get your choice though..

Your premise about speed is wrong... but it would take too long to explain the difference.. and you probably want something energetic for a circus anyways...

Why a hindu basket? it's kind of a small trick for a circus ring.. and honestly.. not a very good illusion..

The Assistant Revenge will have to be done near the back of the ring, but as I said, it was too good of a deal to leave it, and I got the Hindu Basket basically for free with the Assistant Revenge (wich is a good thing considering my current financial situation, haha)

Please explain me how I'm wrong about the speed, if I can do them in a different way, please let me know.

PS: The Fire Cage I have now was built.. in a cheap way.. I'm trying to make something out of it, new paint job, fixing the door, new foullard, using magnets instead of a locking system..

But 1 problem I can't seem to solve is: How can I use a flame inside the cage SAFELY?

I don't think it's gonna be good for the cage if I just use a sponge and soak it with gasoline, that way when the girl comes out
the gasoline jumps up and sets my curtain on fire (have to be carefull how I say this)..

Maybe flash paper? But then the flame is gone too soon..

The best thing I could some up with so far is just pouring a tiny little bit of gasoline in the cage, just enough so it stays lit until the curtain goes over it, and in case it's still on, during the production the falem will go out anyway without doing too much damage..

Please, any ideas or suggestions are welcome, I'm already planning on having 1 made, but until then I wanna do the illusion right..

I would definitely advise against using Sub Trunk and Assistant's Revenge in the same act.

There's an old vaudeville saying that goes, "You don't follow a banjo act with a banjo act." This is very wise.

The two illusions are essentially identical in plot, and the only difference is the prop. They are both excellent and exciting illusions, but using them both in a single performance diminishes their impacts.

Their primary "gasp-factor" (if I may coin a term) is the instantaneous nature of the effect. A repeated surprise fails to be a surprise.

I often hear people try to justify doing two similar illusions in the same act by saying that "the audience really went wild for both". This is usually hyperbole to some extent on the part of the magician. Audiences tend to be generous, and yes they will applaud both effects. But we owe it to our audiences as entertainers to understand the nuances of how to structure a show for maximum impact. Performing an illusion simply because I own it is a poor decision.

Speaking personally, if I were in your position, I would choose whichever illusion I perform best (not necessarily the one I like best) and keep it in the show. I would sell the other illusion to get a different one that fills a different dramatic function in my show.

Best of luck to you!

There are so many things that are frightening about the above post but let's start with the order. In general the sub trunk tends to make a better closer as there's a better structure, build and payoff than the assistant's revenge (in most cases). If you need to do the Hindu basket I would bury it second but then you have to put Assistant's Revenge and the sub trunk together which is not a good choice. Unless you really need the time, fire cage, basket and sub trunk is a good set.

Now let's talk about the fire cage! If it was not designed as a fire cage it could be very dangerous to add the fire to a production cage and have it be safe. The most important thing is to have some way of controlling the open flame and more importantly a surefire way of extinguishing it. lol... let's all just say that a sponge soaked in gasoline is NEVER a good idea!

In designing any open flame effect the most important thing is having a surefire way of extinguishing the flame. Ideally a dedicated metal flap attached to the flame box which works along with the gimmick on the cage. There are some cages where the gimmick will extinguish the flame but you need to make sure that the material is fireproof and that there is no chance of the flame not going out.

If in doubt, enlist the aid of the local fire marshal to help design an effect that they will be happy with. In many situations you might have to demonstrate the effect for them to get a permit to do it. They can also help you find the right product for the flame and typically that is never gasoline. There are many options from kerosene and camping fuel to lamp oil and lighter fluid. Each has advantages and disadvantages but again, check with local fire marshal and have them help you determine the best course of action.

@ David, I understand that both illusions are very similiar, but the way I justify using both in the same act aside from not having other options is that with the Sub Trunk, people kind off know what it is and what will happen, unlike with the Assistant Revenge, if it rolls in the ring, the audience will wonder: "Now what the hell is this??" and I find it fitting into the 'hidden story', I put my assistant in the Basket, ram swords through it and she comes out unharmed THEN she takes revenge and it turns out that the magician is once again the hero (by switching with the assistant chained against the prop)

@ Ray, Yes I agree, safety first, but it isn't really a Fire Cage when there's no fire.. And the music I have for this illusion fits the use of fire and throwing flash paper up, I'll experiment some more and try and find something that works, is safe and will not burn my props

Thank you both for the feedback

In my opinion you do yourself and your audience a disservice with this kind of reasoning. If you presuppose that an audience knows what the sub trunk is and what will happen, why perform it at all?

If you perform sub trunk as a throw away, all you're really doing is filling time with something in which you don't seem to have much emotional investment. If this is the case, you certainly cannot expect an audience to have an emotional investment it it either. And the net result is a weakening of an entire act.

When I direct a show, be it magic, theatre, video, opera, anything on stage or on screen, I have to be aware of the audience experience at every step along the way. It is my job to eliminate, or at the very least minimize, moments in a show that do not advance the story and/or action satisfactorily and understandably. Sometimes we have to say 'no' to good things in order to say 'yes' to the right things.

I believe we must never take advantage of our audiences' good graces by offering them something that merely passes the time. We must get out of our 'magicial' mindset and take on a 'theatrical' one. As such, I would ask you how you know that people "kind of know what it is and what will happen" with regards to a sub trunk? Granted, it is a common illusion and for a very good reason. It has proven its audience worthiness. But there is nothing visually about a simple trunk to tell the audience what the "magic moment" is going to be. If I presuppose the audience's experience to be one of bland recognition, I have already shot myself in the foot and cannot possibly hope to entertain anyone with it.

I also find it a bit of a stretch to see coming out of the basket and going into the Assistant's Revenge as being accurately perceived as actual revenge. We tend to go there in our minds because that's the name of the prop. But I doubt that the concept of 'revenge' ever actually enters an audience member's mind, seeing it more as a transposition (which is actually what the illusion is). Unless the magician is left in the prop and dragged off stage struggling against the restraints while the assistant cheerfully trots away, there's really no revenge. If you let him out at the conclusion the 'revenge' is diminished to say the least.

Of course you can perform whatever sequence of effects you want to, and most likely audiences will applaud (they are a generous lot by and large). But I always advise performers to strive to make the audience's experience as positive as possible. And this does not happen without a lot of research into topics that have nothing to do with 'tricks'. Magic is theatre. I am constantly amazed at how few magicians know anything about theatre.

Well said Frank.

For the fire cage you need a well with some wick (juggling torch kevlar) that closes by itself so you don't have to rely on the secret P.... to get the fire out.

Your assistant could take one of the swords from the sword basket and use this to force you to go to the assistant revenge.

I would start with the Fire cage, then the Assistants Revenge, Sword basket & Sub trunk (with a costume change ;-) )
With this order the transitions are easy: during introduction they put the fire cage in the middle (show it left/right before the production of your assistant) and the assistant revenge near the back (this way you have a reason to have it there, in the spectators mind, because the fire cage is in the way?) the other 2 illusions can be performed center ring.

Frank, I understand what you mean.. Lots to think about and work on.

I think your building your illusion act on what you already own or bought for a steal. Instead maybe you should plan the act the buy the illusions that fit. Not building the act around the illusions you own. -Alex

Three quick things -

1) NEVER EVER F'ING EVER USE GASOLINE! Ever. ever. Lighter fluid, lamp fuel, yes (though I am providing this information only for amusement purposes and am not encouraging you to use ANY flammable fluid). NEVER gasoline. You'll burn your eyes out. And the fumes will KILL you.

2) You can modify the Assistant's Revenge to be done surrounded - you kind of HAVE to if you're doing it in a circus ring. Put a hoop on the top - you can get them from shower and bath stores specially made for curtains - and put up a curtain on shower rings - the kind with ball bearings. You can whip it around quickly, and you're covered.

3) Seriously. No gasoline. EVER.

Ray Pierce and Dave Cox REALLY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.

I didn't mean to say gasoline, but couldn't remember the correct word (i'm from a different country so it's ok!)
I'm just gonna pass the torch through the cage without setting anything on fire..

This is my base, I'll start working with what I have now and keep building on that, I know it's not ideal..