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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workshop » » Sound Device for Placing Coins in a Container (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Bill Hegbli
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Eternal Order
Fort Wayne, Indiana
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Anyone come up with or have any working ideas for a sound device for placing coins in a container or box? Sometimes in manipulation with coins the coin is held back, and yet has to sound like the coin was dropped into a bucket or box. The only idea I have and know of is Levent's and Marc DeSouza methods as explained in their videos.

When Fred Kaps placed his jumbo coins in a box, the 1st coin was of hitting the bottom of the box, the following coins were of hitting the coin or coins already in the box. To further add to the puzzle, the 1st coin sounded like the edge hit 1st then a second sound of the coin falling against the bottom of the box. This duel sound continued with many of the coins, but the 1st one is a real convincing sound of getting rid of the coin.

DeSouza'a solution is actually the opposite of a coin falling when sinked with the actions. The sound is made when the hand is removed, not when the hand enters. Levent's sound device is only of a ringing bell type device, and is a sound of always hitting the box and little noise of the coins hitting the other coins. Both these ideas are only a basic start on a solution.

Thanks in advance for your assistance of any ideas.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
the Sponge
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Atlanta
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Petrick & Mia have a bucket. I saw him demo it at a lecture years ago. It is mentioned in this thread you commented on, so perhaps you know the bucket, and it is just not for you?

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=10

s
Bill Hegbli
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Eternal Order
Fort Wayne, Indiana
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The Sponge, yes, I know and have the Petrick gimmick, he fooled me badly when I was at a convention. He was only 5 feet away when he demoed his miser's dream routine for me. I was so fooled I bought 2 sets, he looked at me funny, but needed the extra sales.

If you note my question is to get a double sound, not just a plunk, but a plunk - plunk sound. When a coin is placed or thrown down, it usually hits the edge 1st, then falls over on it's side. The next problem, is the 1st coin needs to hit the bottom of box or bucket, all remaining coins hit other coins. Two totally different sounds.

What I am trying to solve is the use of 3" coins being used in a routine.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
wandmgc8
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Tennessee
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I don't know how expensive it would be, but, it seems to me that one of those gizzmos that Apple sells used to put into greeting cards and the like could be used to store such a sound, and, secreted into whatever prop to be triggered when needed. I haven't any experience with those. It just popped into my head when I read your post. I hope to work with these in the future.

Hoping to help....Michael
jay leslie
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What if you held a few coins (or aluminium disks) up the side and dropped them as needed?

The downside is not showing the bucket empty (it starts off laying on it's side) at the beginning unless you "pulled" the other coins and picked-up the bucket... at the same time the first coin was dropped. The noise of adding the extra coins would be concealed that way.

If you're willing to gimmick the bucket. A salad tong along the side could hold the coins till needed or use Ferris disks with a mag on the outside. In either case the bucket can be turned over with nothing falling out and the assumption is made that it's empty.

I do like the idea of 3 inch coins, Let us know what you decide.
billappleton
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Los Gatos, California
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This is a perfect application for a pizo sound chip. They are loud and could be heard from a stage, they sound just about perfect for mechanical things like this.

Look at Floyd Bell, they make a great one.

I think you would need three sounds, the first clink and then one or two other clinks to pull this off.

Lots of R & D here, this is probably only viable for a larger product, but man that would be awesome.
Spellbinder
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Wiz Kid Wilhelmina faced a similar problem with her "Piggy Needs Money" in her unfinished book "Magic 4 Girls" on my site. Her problem is a bit different in that she produces chocolate coins covered with gold foil, but she wants them to sound like real metal coins as she drops them one by one into her piggy bank after materializing each one from the air or someplace clever. She gives credit to Karrell Fox and his B.S. Coin Pail for the inspiration, but she has made significant changes to the idea to make it work inside a plastic piggy bank, so she deserves credit as well.
Professor Spellbinder

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Bill Hegbli
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Fort Wayne, Indiana
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Thanks for the ideas thus far, but as I mentioned the string or nylon line idea is only a start, and after considerable 'brain storming', I believe the material is the wrong solution. Instead of a nylon line or string arrangement, a flexible line may be a better solution. I will not have the box for several weeks, thus actual physical experimenting will have to wait until then. I believe the old saying will apply here as well, "keep it simple".

Posted: Nov 18, 2011 4:05am
I guess things are progressing and maybe just maybe it will work with ny needs.

Look at this new item just out called Handy Sounds and it is only, get this, $6.75.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla......fq8W63GQ

Anyone know if they have a coin in wood box sound set?
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
billappleton
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Los Gatos, California
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Bill start searching for RECORD and playback units.

There will be one that you can record a wave and play back.

I think volume might be a problem, let us know how loud you want this, I think there will be one out there.

Posted: Nov 18, 2011 3:51pm
Look at these guys:

http://www.talkingproducts.com/

http://www.talkingproducts.com/independe......ls.html#

http://www.assistech.com/cgi-bin/shopper......y=709826

also do a search for voice recorder keychain
Bill Hegbli
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Fort Wayne, Indiana
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Thanks Bill Appleton, I ordered Handy Sound to see what the device is, for $7, I took a big chance I know. Sometimes you just have live dangerously. LOL

Maybe there is a way to improve on the trigger of these devices, it is so hard to do 2 thins at once.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
Ray Pierce
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As much as I love technology, I'm not a big proponent of a sound chip to replicate reality. No matter how we play it back, there is something that doesn't sound quite right.

I was actually thinking of something a little more organic. I wonder if a solenoid in the table could hit the bottom of the bucket sitting on top of it with the right amount of force to make the coins bounce inside? It might need some sort of suspension for the bucket is but if there were a few coins already in there, this mechanical tap could be just enough to fool the ear. It could be either electrically fired as a solenoid or some manual system with a string from the table. Might be something to play with.
Ray Pierce
<BR>www.HollywoodAerialArts.com
billappleton
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Hi Ray, I think you are right -- if the sound doesn't ring true, with real fidelity, there is something fishy.

But this is tantalizing, because a device could be built with small size, pizo electric quality, bubble memory backup, loud volume, instant response, quick recording, reasonable price etc.

Instead of having a PA system with sound triggers, all the effects could be built into the props themselves, which would work in closeup or parlor as well as microphone stage.

This would be as cool as real smoke and even more useful.

I got a taste of this with the Floyd Bell pizo voice system that says "equipment malfunction" built into my applause meter. This is loud, clear, small, and practical.

Problem is they have to build the sound effect into the production of the speaker unit. If this thing was bubble memory recordable I think it would be game changing.

The things I have found so far are too cheap, like recordable greeting card systems. Maybe something for hearing impairment would have the quality.

Sorry I went off on a rant for a moment. But lets be on the lookout for a device that can do this!
Ray Pierce
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Bill,

I like the idea but I think we have to be very selective in its application. If we're trying to re-create an organic sound it might be less than effective. On the other hand if we are creating a sound effect such as Danny Sylvester uses, I think it could be a great idea. Disney has spent years trying to create the illusion of reality with incredibly expensive chest mounted speakers in audio animatronic figures but it never really fools the ear. If you want to create the sound of a robot talking it's great, if you want to create the illusion that you were inside of a trunk when you're really somewhere else... You're trying to create a real organic sound that we have a lot of direct comparisons to and this method can't measure up.

It's not even about volume but as you mentioned, fidelity. There are resident factors and overtones that are very difficult to produce with speakers no matter what the quality. Imagine sitting in a room and listening to a grand piano, then trying to re-create that sound with speakers. I'm not saying that it isn't possible but is one of the most challenging tests of any audio designer.
Ray Pierce
<BR>www.HollywoodAerialArts.com
billappleton
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Great points Ray. Coincidentally I worked with Disney for years building CD ROM video games. Not the same issue but lots of digital sound work and they do have a certain corporate culture.

I think voice is quite a problem, but sound effects might work. And the alternative is playing these effects over a music system, which is also hard to sell as authentic.

Hey Bill, look at this one:

http://www.cheertrend.com/music%20box/voice%20box-5.html

Focus in on sound systems for talking toys. This has plenty of power and a big speaker.

Posted: Nov 20, 2011 11:12am
Think Teddy Bears. On Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Recorder-Captures-......sim_ac_1

http://www.amazon.com/60-second-digital-......9&sr=8-3

http://www.amazon.com/Second-Recordable-......d_cp_e_1
Bill Hegbli
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Eternal Order
Fort Wayne, Indiana
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Well, my boxes came and it is just right for the Jumbo Coins to be placed in. It hit me, the perfect solution for the sound, spring loaded trigger. Works great and sounds great against the wood bottom and coins in the box. Even got the double clink for each coin.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
Bill Hegbli
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Eternal Order
Fort Wayne, Indiana
22174 Posts

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Just got my Handy Sound yesterday, and it is very good. Yes, when I opened the package, and pushed the buttons, it was not very loud.

Guys, you cannot judge a book by it cover. I walked into the kitchen, grabbed a cup. Held it as instructed on the card. It was louder, and sounded just like a coin hitting the cup.

The sound bounces off the ceramic or glass cup. Changes the sound totally and then sounds like an echo inside the cup.

So I went to the local restaurant. When my cup of coffee was empty, I turned to the patron next to me at the counter. Did the invisible coin productions. His eyes popped! The other guys at the bar laughed out loud. Try the swirl and dump out the coins move. It get reactions.

Give it a try, I think you will be surprised.

And for all those Hold-out experts, this is a perfect attachment to use with it.

I like it, and recommend you give it a try. I got mine for only $6.75 at The Magic Warehouse. It is definitely worth the price.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
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