In the other thread I quote from Theoren Fleury's blog, and I think he nails the ethical issue.

What does it matter if you are "ostracized, released, brushed aside" if it is the consequence of defending a child? Have we sunk so morally low that we are willing to allow children to be abused because we are afraid of losing privileges? My parents would be ashamed if their son grew up to act that way.

John

If I would have seen it the first thing I would have done, is stop it and call the police, and then make sure that the rapist didn't leave (perferably by a baseball bat to the head).

Watching the Penn State Nebraska game now...great first quarter. The "end of an era" perspective is really amazing - you have to go back SEVEN DECADES to the last time Penn State played a football game (1949) without Paterno on the coaching staff.

Recognizing that my disagreement with others on this forum is one of degree and not of kind (I think we all agree there's a lot of blame to go around), in light of my profound respect for Stone, and of Jimmy Fingers's comments in connection with Acesover's comments about the weight and credibility that Paterno carried, I'm reconsidering my opinions on this.

This whole thing has been very hard on my family. My great grandfather went to Penn State, bought 150 acres of land for a buck an acre when he graduated and refused to develop it. Eventually he built a stately tudor mansion on the property as a summer house where I spent my summers as a kid. It is the house I got married at. I have a needlepoint on my wall that my mother did of that house. It was called Lisnaward, after our ancestral home in Ireland. Today that house is the Penn State University President's house, so in many ways I'm concerned about who is moving into my family home. My great grandfather built his frats charter house and there is a trust in his name, he served as president of the board of trustees and there is a building and street named in his honor. My grandparents went to Penn State and my grandfather was the manager of the football team when they went to the rose bowl. We still own 50 yard line season tickets that have been in the family for, I imagine, at least a hundred years. My grandmother used to get drunk and call up Joe Paterno in the middle of the night and yell at him. He paid visits to her at our house. Both my parents went to Penn State. My sister is pretty much devastated by this and I spoke with her and she defends him and thinks the decision was a mistake. In her mind, he did what he could do based on what he knew. I asked what if he really knew a child was being raped, and she had to admit she would have to change her mind but she is typical I think of people who cherish Penn State and the Joe Paterno. They can't believe it, so they don't. Sad day for everyone.

The idea that we are a small, effectively self policing community? THAT is a joke!!!

Many of us in magic are doing the SAME THING, through omission. I've been victimized by it, hugely. I am now involved with a lot of people who turn a blind eye to this type of behavior. We are the problem.

Until I looked closely into the mirror, I almost forgave myself for my participation in all of this. I'll bet that a larger number of people than imagined are somehow perpetuating the upward mobility in the magic world of people who have violated children sexually.

Jimmy Grippo used to call this out, consistently, and it is not talked about too much.

I fear that I am in a similar position to Joe Paterno's staff. Do we need to all come clean here? Some of the people who do this kind of thing are very popular and powerful in the magic world, but we turn a blind eye. We've all seen the names that come up here and there in magic. We still respect, support and accept them. But, they are Jerry Sandusky-types.

When and how do we clean house? I know that if I were to come clean, my most ardent supporters at the top of the magic world would hate me.

THAT is how powerful this is.

Jimmy Fingers

Jimmy,

You have to tell the police if you know a childs been harmed. So, what if the big names at the top of the magic world would hate you, they are hiding child molesters. Would they want you to tell someone if it was one of their children?

If you DON"T tell the police, then you are as GUILTY as the molester!!

My point exactly.

But, with Penn State, now there is even a longer reach of culpability.

Did a little wikipedia search there, thanks Jon. Lots to consider: why now? who benefits? who's investigating? who's covering up? who's involved? what's the real story?

Major League Football, the big business which wants you to watch football and buy product related to their show and buy product advertised during their show, will do what it needs to make sure its audience, you, will continue about your consumption of product - after a suitable moment of hand wringing over a few revelations about some personal indiscretions. At least so few we have not heard about bodies being found or unusual artifacts made using body parts from the abused.

Will that change whether or not children are abused? In that way? By those who provide the children and those who have learned to enjoy such activities? Of course not. Most of you simply don't want to think about the root cause issues here.

For the few who can even consider the problem from afar: Joseph Campbell observed that older societies tended to have rites of passage from child to adult. He also stated that children can't initiate children into adulthood. You are welcome to check the sources, context references and from that to consider the matter as it relates to our society. Or you can get back to watching games on TV, simulating acts of violent misogeny and acting out various maladaptions which are all but invisible to astute adults.

Yeah, my mother set up ISRNI. The problem is older than what's described in the book "The Boys of Boise". But for most here it's simpler to wring ones hands while palming a card or coin and wait for the storm to blow over before going back to business as usual.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Especially when it comes out of your great grandmother's changepurse. Yes, audiences do notice.

My point is that everyone in the program knew of this situation, and nobody did anything about it for 8 years.

Everyone is guilty of hush-hush.

It's forcing me to rethink many of my situations in my career, and I'm wondering about my culpability if I sit back and don't make waves.

I consider myself to be an outspoken maverick, who has the character to do what's right, regardless of the inconvenience. Now, I'm questioning my own character by saying nothing to my associates who might be in similar positions to Joe Paterno.

Aren't the other individuals involved in the program the issue here? I've been on both sides of this in the magic world, and I can tell you that being on the victim side is a very lonely place. The only thing comparably debilitating is being on the hush-hush side.

By the way, all of this is extremely similar to what happened at Magic Island with Bob Markwood.

Your associates can't do anything, tell the police even if you have to make a phone call without leaving your name. Tell the cops and then it's their responsiblilty to investigate and if they don't call the press with a tip.

TELL THE POLICE.

They had a football team on magic island and the coach was sacrificing virgins in the shower?
And please don't call it recruiting or initiating.

Interesting story about Paterno from back in 2007:

http://longform.org/icon/

Gotta love that "overlapping obligations" copout/euphemism.