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Tim Friday
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On 2011-11-14 21:30, Eric Evans wrote:
As to Tim's comment, seems I was wrong about Tim in my revised estimation; making the kind of general, all-inclusive statements he has, would indicate a someone who is really full of his own ideas about who everyone else is.

A potentially great performer would know better, or at least allow room to perceive the merest glimmer that he/she might be wrong.


Eric, anything I post on here is just my opinion, and I could be wrong. The only thing that I am an expert on is my opinion just like anyone else. I think I've made enough posts on this Café at this point that there are some people who disagree with me and that's ok, that's how it will always be.
I appreciate your posts & I sense you are not one to beat around the bush, thank you.
Tim Friday
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Quote:
On 2011-11-14 00:27, Bobby Maverick wrote:
My grandmother used to pick the petals off of roses and create these water color and rose petal paintings with the most beautiful depth and richness.
My sister would cry and try to put the petals back on the flowers.


Bobby, there is something profound about your post, it reminds me of the old expression about art:

"Art is in the eye of the beholder."

Or

"Art is only skin deep."
Tim Friday
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Perhaps I was too critical on the idea of the starving artist in my earlier post. It's easy for someone to criticize why something is wrong, and I believe that is what I did.

It is more challenging to take the next step going from the criticism to the how to improve.

I only want the best for everyone. If someone is not making the money they could potentially be making, I wish I could help them.

I did mention that we all have beliefs and baggage about money. I heard something truly inspiring in regards to this today. I was listening to the Dave Ramsey show on my iPod and a lady called in saying Dave's money plan will not work for her because she saved up $1,000 for the first time in her life then everything fell apart. Dave spoke to her and completely retrained her beliefs about money in a matter of minutes. It was the most inspiring thing I have heard in a very long time.

If you want to hear it go to http://www.daveramsey.com/radio/home/#podcast-tab
Click on the archives tab in the player and go to the show from 10/31/11. I recommend listening to the whole show, at least the first hour, but if you want to hear the part I am referring to go to 42 minutes into the show and you will hear it. Truly inspiring.

Rather than simply criticize why something is wrong, it is better to follow through with a how to improve. The Dave Ramsey show is great way to improve one's belief system about money, I know it has helped me.

So to bring it back around, if anyone reading this feels they are a failure with money because they are an "artiste", please listen to the Dave Ramsey show. You can get it free as a podcast, and that's what I do...
Eric Evans
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Years ago, a very good friend said something to me that I remember to this day. Though I have lost contact with him (last I heard he might have been committed to a mental institution) his words still ring in my ears:

"The audience has the monopoly, they decide what is good and what isn't".

On the surface, one could disagree with that statement. Rationalizing, by telling oneself "this isn't my crowd". Or, "they just don't get it; they're too stupid to appreciate my genius". Any of a myriad of different excuses or different perambulations of the same sentiment serve as pacifiers for their egos I guess.

The fact is that we as Craftsmen or, perhaps, Artists have one mission, to communicate our vision whatever that is. It is up to us, no one else can provide us with that content. We have to discover it for ourselves. Especially if we aspire to acquire the title "Artist". As a practical matter, we've got to make money while we pursue that goal.

I haven't met but a few performers that feel or think that way at times, and no one as a general rule. When I have heard it (rarely), it is said by performers who aren't doing too well monetarily and they want to offer excuses as to why they aren't making what their "reputation" would seem to dictate. They're afraid of what others think of them.

Speaking for myself, if I'm not making the money I think I should, then I know where the fault is. After all, I am the one with the show. But again, as a practical consideration, there are towns that I won't work by choice. There are neighborhoods that I won't venture into because I know that the obstacles are too great for me (as a Craftsman) to overcome -- because I know myself. And I know the towns or areas that are not optimal for me to play. I've been in this game long enough that it is like reading a book.

I don't know anyone that can work everywhere. Much less make good money wherever they find themselves. But it is up to us as aspiring artists to communicate what we can, where we can.

It is the role of the self-annointed, ill-informed hypocrite to criticize other performers based on hearsay or second-hand knowledge. Something that I see far more out there than "Artistes" whining.

Critics abound and while, I suppose they serve their role, I think they suck.
Eric Evans
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One last thing, before I forget...

Bobby, or Bmav, whatever,

I seemed to recall reading on a forum somewhere (talkmagic?) that you considered Sun Tzu too "cryptic" for your taste?

After you last post, surely you jest?
Paddy
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Eric, you seem to have a hard one for Bobby and I don't understand why. We live in the same area and are friends and he has always been complimentary towards you and when we both watched vids of you he points out things that I missed so I could learn your method and adapt my shows. Bobby really believes what he writes that we should listen to EVERYONE and learn from everyone, then take that and develop our own show. In fact he is the first one to encourage me and others to buy Jimmy Talksalot lecture notes if we could,nt make it to his lecture.
Non Impediti Ratione Cogitationis

I reject your reality & substitute my own

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Eric Evans
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Hi Paddy,

I'm not sure what you mean by "a hard one" for Bobby. Provided it means what I think it does, a resentment; a hard attitude, then I have two choices:

1) Play it like Bobby did in our last brief exchange and shirk it off by telling you that you're mistaken, it must be a figment of your imagination.

Or,

2) Meet your concern head on, directly, which is how I prefer to converse here and in person. You see I try and confine the "indirect approach" to my execution of magic.

I don't know if you read my inquisitive post to Bobby in the thread here:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......&start=0

I asked Bobby several questions in my post, he chose to ignore all but one -- it happened to be the only one he could easily deflect. Considering his "minimalistic" (a feeble attempt at a call-back to this threads topic) reply, I am left to assume that he was setting up a "straw man" if he wasn't referencing anyone specific.

Now, consider this post I found one day when looking online for reviews of my and Nowlin's book, The Secret Art of Magic:

_________________________________________________

"The thing is that there are a couple different outlooks on how to street perform...

Unfortunately, there's the WRONG way and these tend to come is cryptically written books, and the right way that come in direct concise and clear format.

BY the way, some of the ways in which Sun Tsu's teachings are quoted and applied in that book are being twisted form their original meanings to fit the needs of the author... don't get me wrong, Its a very interesting book, but I wouldnt go basing a BUsking career on it."
_________________________________________________

It was made by one Bobby on May 27th 2010. And I'm not sure if it is made by Bobby Maverick or not, but it fits his previously expressed opinions on the matter. It also flies in the face of at least a couple of opinions he has expressed in this forum.

So yeah, it irritates me (resentment is too strong a word) when people aren't consistent in their opinions. (Especially if they try and "promote themselves" as some kind of expert in their respective field). If they try and remain illusive, and dodge probing questions, doubly so. I enjoy open, intelligent debate and I have always welcomed diverse opinions by not engaging people directly about my own work, for I thought my participation in such debates might squelch open discussion.

In an effort to bring this back home to this threads overriding topic let me just say that I believe it is important for an Artist to be sound, consistent and responsive. Qualities that we can all aspire to, whether Artists or not. Founding our work on solid principles is the hallmark of the professional and I think my work speaks for itself in this regard.

But, again, anyone is invited to openly disagree with me and I will be happy to engage.
gallagher
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Hey folk thanks for the thoughts, the ideas., you kinda got me going,...i'm sitting in the cold typing this out on my som's cellfon.! Nooo! Still, thanks.
Lots of thought.
Tim, let the "strarving artist" cliche,..it's not needed here. In fact, let whole "money" concept out of it.,... I'm not after "what's better?
The concept that Art must be acceptible and apreciated, the more the better,... I find also silly.
I think we should differentiate here between Enterrainment and Art. First, I hold neither, as the superior. Both worthy.
Entertainment, an honourible craft. Art, well,... That's what we're working on.
I see myself more as a strugglimg Entertainer, then as an Artist. But this matters not.

Again, I find Art to be: a conscious alteration of nature.
It need not be entertaining, amusing, widely acceptible, or profitable. It's sole purpose; gosh, we could say,"soul" purpose,...for the poets,... is expansion of what we belief to be 'reality'.
,... now that's an honourible task.
Then again, Eric, " merely" expressing ourselves (our purpose in life), isn't enough. An Artist goes farther.,...calculated alteration of nature.
But please, again,....one worthier?,...naa, it's got to be egoless,...both.

Bobby, poetic metaphor, but I'm not sure of the point,... In honrsty, I thought yoi migjt be throwing a bit of honey in the gear box here,... sorry if I thought wrong.
On the other hand, if your oma was creating something new, your sister was simply a bit to conssrbative to let it. Again, I believe Art breaks from 'what we have',.... Ventures in to new space.

Should we strive for Art?,.... Constantly?
I nelieve it should be like volcanic activity,... Not the norm, but threatening. I beliebe a stabil banality,...everyday life, is neccasary for a healthy,...stabilty. A foundation to expand on,....thru Art.

I' m cold. Thanks for listening,.... Considering,
Gallagher.
Tim Friday
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Eric,
All I want is a teacher who treats me in the same way as Cellini treated his students. I never got to meet Cellini. I have heard that was not the highest earner. However he did have students who are now the highest earners. I find that interesting...

Gallagher,
Wouldn't it be fair to say that it is artful to be able to take a person who has a limited way of thinking, and expand their mind to a new level of thinking? That is what Dave Ramsey did with the lady I mentioned. In a matter of minutes he changed her whole belief system. Art is change. If what Dave Ramsey did with that woman is not art, I do not know what is. Art is speaking to a person's potential.

I am sorry Gallagher, but it is beyond my mental faculties to not think of money, and how it relates to art.

Like Dave Ramsey teaches:

think like poor people think, you get what poor people get
think like rich people think, you get what rich people get


If a statement like that is not art, I do not know what art is...
HerbLarry
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Quote:


If a statement like that is not art, I do not know what art is...


OK, I'm good with that.
You know why don't act naive.
Dave V
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That reminds me of the Henry Ford quote "If you think you can or think you can't, you're right"
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Devious
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"When an honest man discovers he is wrong, he will either cease being wrong, or cease being honest"
-Anonymous
Devious Deceptions
"Gadol Elohai!"
L'Chaim!
Tim Friday
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After thinking about this I have concluded:

What's most important is that we each run our own race

If a person chooses to run the race of art as being most important, that person should run that race to the best of their ability.

If a person chooses to run the race of making money as being most important, that person should run that race to the best of their ability.

We each must choose our own race whatever it is, & do our best to run it as best we can.

This concept is described much better here: http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/......+Blog%29
Eric Evans
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Amen Tim.

Do what you feel you need to do without putting others down for not doing it your way.
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