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Todd Robbins V.I.P. New York 2922 Posts |
What? Melvin who. Certainly not Melvin Burkhart. Melvin was the most giving man I have ever met. He offered up to anyone anything he had. And he did it for free. All he asked was that the knowledge be passed on. He was the inspiration for starting up the Coney Island school. When he died it made me realize that so much of the past was being lost and these skill should be taught to others.
Once again, what will be done on 12/3 does not compare to a week of instruction in Coney Island. And a week of classes in Coney Island can not compare to being on the road with a good show or mentoring for an extended period of time with a seasoned performer. The irony of all this is that my talk is priced considerably higher than most magic lectures. And I don't feel I have flooded the market with performers. What I do feel is gratification when I see people like Mike and Tommy Breen and others working on shows. Would they have ended up there without having been to Coney Island? Perhaps. Perhaps not. I do like to think that I started them off in the right direction and gave them a push that has sent them on a rewarding life adventure. Perhaps this will make me look like a mark in the eyes of some, but for the record, I never took a dime compensation for those classes in Coney Island. And all materials used were paid for by me. I did it because I love the sideshow and it this material has been good to me. And I wouldn't be doing what I do without the generousity of people like Melvin and I felt it was my duty to honor them by giving to others. The tutition for the Coney Island was set at a level that would discourage the casually interested, but not too high to be prohibitive for people that truly wanted to learn this material. And it has been a nice source of revenue for the organization during the off season. And finally, Melvin is not in a grave. I sprinkled his ashes into the ocean off of Steeplechase Pier in Coney Island. |
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crisgal New user 80 Posts |
Without even going into the merit of sharing the "secrets" of sideshow arts, what kind of bothered me personally in your original post, Todd, was your condescending tone towards BCS and WOW. I have worked both shows and know for a fact that performing the blockhead will do little to make your life easier on the road. Also, I have yet to witness any possum belly action, good or bad. My loss!
I don't know why you felt the need to make the WOW and BCS applications joke, but I know that Tommy Breen would be in the business even if he didn't go to Sideshow School in Coney Island and so would Mike Vitka. I know it because we are the exact same generation. Would we be in the business if James Taylor didn't publish Shocked & Amazed? Absolutely. Did it help? Absolutely! But the minute you stop understanding what this is about (the midway) then I really don't really don't know what to do with your "sideshow arts"... because the carnival is still out there. Tommy has just completed his third season managing WOW without Ward and Chris and Mike has been on the road for, what, five years, now? (Mike, correct me if I'm wrong). There is no school to teach you how to talk the front and read the crowd, and turn them at the right time. There is no school to teach you set up and tear down or how to frame a show from scratch. Hot *** there's no school to teach you how to book and market your show. That being said I thought Sideshow School at Coney Island was a neat idea when it first came out - I was a grad school student in film at at the time and sent you an email about making it my graduation film project, but got no response. In retrospect I am glad I didn't as I went on to make a film on something I knew more about then and I'd certainly be more interested now in things happening on the midway (i.e. real life) than in hipsterland. |
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The Curator of the Unusual Inner circle Tampa FL 1399 Posts |
In my Best Charlton Heston* voice, "Dammit Crisgal!!, Youve got Sawdust in your veins!!!"...
*Brad from "The Greatest Show on Earth!" (1952)
You come to a point in your life when you really don't care what people think about you, you just care what you think about yourself.
Evel Knievel contact: curatoroftheunusual@hotmail.com |
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Todd Robbins V.I.P. New York 2922 Posts |
There was nothing condescending about my references to BCS and WOW. You misunderstood the joke.
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Todd Robbins V.I.P. New York 2922 Posts |
All the heat I've been getting has kept this topic at the top of the list...and has help the attendance at the workshop. Thanks.
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thegreatnippulini Inner circle of Hell because I've made 2582 Posts |
Okay, I must weigh in on this. I am in a rare position to be able to see both sides of this coin. Maybe because I am a Gemini, but more to the point that I have done both stage platform, bars, nightclub scenes, sideshow Saturday nights, the sort... AND have worked 4 seasons on classic midway carnival work with WOW and Constantines sideshows pounding stakes, setting up tents, running bannerlines, drinking bitter coffee on cold mornings in the cooktent chatting up with all the workers.
Todd, you will never understand Jim, know what he has to do year in and year out with truly hard grueling work he has to deal with, you will not "get it". Jim, you will never understand Todd, know what HE has to deal with working a 9 to 5, running shows on weekends or the day to day life of a mark, it is not for you. I believe both ends of the sideshow spectrum deserve each others respect, something that may never happen. Both sides are equally important and relevant, neither are better than the other. These "jokes" we say can be misconstrued as sarcastic and vindictive. I have said some things here unwittingly hurtful, and have been overly sensitive to others jabs. Internet, IMs, forums, texts... these are all emotionless forms of communication. The simple phrase "thanks alot!" could be looked at as genuine, can also be seen as causticly harsh and sarcastic. I agree with both sides, which also means I can argue against each side. One of the best things I can recommend is to advise both parties to verbally speak with eachother. The human voice behind the words can do a world of difference in making one's point and can mend broken bridges. TGN
The Great Nippulini: body piercer, Guinness World Record holder, blacksmith and man with The World's Strongest Nipples! Does the WORLD care? We shall see...
http://www.greatnippulini.com |
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crisgal New user 80 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-11-17 10:15, Todd Robbins wrote: Right. Forgive me if I get a little defensive. But I read more jokes about toothless and ignorant carnies in this board of “discussions of life on the midway” than explaining what I do on tour to strangers in bars in Kenosha, Wisconsin. I have no doubt that everyone here (or most people here) love the sideshow. I have absolutely no problem with club acts, and in fact I believe life in the midway is not for everybody. Even in a show like Jim’s, in which crew members get private rooms with AC, fridge, microwave and Wi-Fi (no need to go to the local library!), it IS a hard life. But if you choose to stay off the midway and still use the word “sideshow” then call me crazy but I think you must be respectful and grateful to the people who are struggling to keep the most authentic aspects of that tradition alive. Sure I may have misunderstood your tone, I’ll take that, and I think I made my points clear before anyway. I am a fan of your work, Todd. The two plays I’ve seen were great. Good luck with your workshop and if you train an attractive young man to put up a tent, hook up electricity and smile while saying “no wrist bands” 2000+ times a day, please do send him my way – you can keep the application fee. |
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The Curator of the Unusual Inner circle Tampa FL 1399 Posts |
I have done Acts!!! ,1/2 @ssed Magician, High Wire, Low Wire, Rolla-Bola,Revolving Ladder, Diablos and Elephants. From the Stage of the Shrine Auditorium in LA, to under a Bigtop at Yankee Stadium in the Bronx...Played Kiwanis Clubs and VFW's,...Played Vegas under a tent and in the Civic Center..as a Kid, Birthday Party's, and Businessmans Luncheons..Can perform 88% of the Sideshow stunts...You Guys think the Sideshow on the Midway is Hard and Grueling..Why? cause you KNOW nothing about it! just did 8 months on the road, and By Golly I still have all my teeth! Am I tired? just Mentally, after 33 seasons I've learned how to move a Rag painlessly...Ask Tim or Paul Café members...They have seen how relatively easy we move the BCS...My Guys just did 8 months and wwith me also and have expressed that they could go 12...Believe me! Nobody is overworked on the BCS, ask Rick West...This Thread isn't about Acts versus REAL Shows...Its about Todd having a workshop @ a Magic Shop...BRAVO!...then it evolved into A week long Coney Island School for $600 bones versus learn same stuff for $65...Todd then assured us that the $65 Deal is a highly watered down from the $600 Deal...My Biggest Beef w/ Sideshow Schools IS the Arts are Fine...But if the Sideshow is to continue...We need to start trainin New Showmen....cause anybody can do a Act!...even me!...
You come to a point in your life when you really don't care what people think about you, you just care what you think about yourself.
Evel Knievel contact: curatoroftheunusual@hotmail.com |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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The Curator of the Unusual Inner circle Tampa FL 1399 Posts |
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On 2011-11-17 10:59, thegreatnippulini wrote: I had No Idea!...Todd please accept my Apologie...Really! I feel Terrible!.. Sincerely The Curator
You come to a point in your life when you really don't care what people think about you, you just care what you think about yourself.
Evel Knievel contact: curatoroftheunusual@hotmail.com |
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Kondini Inner circle 3609 Posts |
Private rooms! Fridge ! Wi Fi ! Microwave,,,cmon that's not working the run, that's a bleeding holiday.
We live in the back of a van and consider a porta potti a luxury, travel up to 1000 miles a week, set and break, promote and perform, lost most teeth and work March through to 24th December (This year still outside at Tetbury, home of the Royals over December). Yep we love what we do, we also have no choice cos its all we know ! The main thing behind this is to GTFM in. Called survival. Todd has found another way which works for him. Todd is sensible and has an eye for working out of the box. With those NY housewives he is *** lucky as well. So there. We work outside, inside, anyside and any place we can get a crust so stop your beefing around with each other and back each other up,,,,compared to our way of life on the Tobers here you are a bunch of wooley woofters. Off to darn those holes in me socks better light the candle first cos its getting dark in the back of this van and can`t afford to run the set till we open. Ken. |
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Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
Jim, anybody can do an act? Tsk, tsk. You know better. Being a good showman is about a lot more than whether one has pounded a stake, or shoved one down their throat. You run your show differently than many others. You have your own style. That's why you're top of the heap. (Low-wire? I trained a dog to do low wire, and she was good at it, although her back legs were on the ground the whole time. She was much better at riding on my shoulders, while I walked it.)
Nipps, both Jim and Todd have been performing since you were in diapers. Each has experience in the markets where the other primarily works. They're cut from the same cloth. This a well-deserved compliment to each of them. The reality is that every part of this business has trials and tribulations. It's just part of the territory. "Sideshow" is a word that conveys a certain image, but the art form has only been defined in this narrow way, for about 150 years. Stunt performance and exhibition of oddity existed for thousands of years before, and will still be here when tents have gone the way of the Edsel. Tractors will probably still be around. Everybody's gotta start somewhere. The old story about running away and joining a circus (or carnival) is mostly just that, a story. There aren't too many places (that aren't half-@ssed) where you can begin to learn this material. A couple of people have asked me whether they should attend this workshop. I've said "Yes", and also mentioned that it's not meant to be a complete course. It's a workshop, a warmup. The information will, by necessity, be limited. Most of the target audience will never put much of it to use. A couple might want to get more than their toes wet. In that case, send them to Cris! Or they can go to Coney, or come to me.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
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Todd Robbins V.I.P. New York 2922 Posts |
A couple of things...
Cris, I'm sorry you have a beef with me. I am the biggest chearleader the world of the sideshow has EVER had. I have never done anything in the way of word or deed to disrespect the field and all those in it. I'm sorry if the ball was dropped in regard to making a film in Coney Island. I don't remember the circumstances, but I probably passed on the request to some one that would have to approve the idea and it disappeared there. And it is so good to hear that you have made a career choice and will be with a show like BCS or open your own show and do this for the rest of your working life. This is great. Nipps, thank for the support. I wish I could find a good 9 to 5 job. As it is, I have had to fall back on performing professionally for the last 30 years. Ken, beware the "real" housewives of NY. The term "real" is about as accurate as "born to live." I have encountered some of these women. I did an event out in the Hamptons some time ago. I was eating fire. They crowded around me and I had to have them move back as I was afraid I was going to melt some of the plastic parts of their bodies. Jim, my talk won't be watered down. It is just shorter and briefer. It's a single-o versus a full ten-in-one. Or in beer terms, a pony versus a pint. And more showmen would be great. But many of the showmen of the past and present got there start as performers, so more performers isn't a bad thing. And if we have more showmen, then there will be more shows and more need for acts, so there you go. Really what is needed is a new generation of carnival owners and fair committee folks that see the value of having a sideshow as part of their midway and would therefore be more supportive of shows instead of doing everything they can to ding them to death (if they even allow a sideshow at all.) If this happens, then maybe the sideshow as an industry would improve and the ratio of income versus effort would become attractive to a new generation of showmen. |
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crisgal New user 80 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-11-17 15:42, Todd Robbins wrote: Todd, I don't have a beef with you. I only interjected because your reference to WOW and BCS really did rub me the wrong way. I already said I accept your explanation of it being a good-natured joke. Then I disagreed that Tommy and Vitka’s time in Sideshow School led them to the midway. I guess you can ask them about that. Either way, no beef. "Do this for the rest of your working life" sounds a little like a curse… maybe you didn’t mean it that way, but I’m taking it as a (benevolent) curse anyway, and I hope it works, because that’s exactly what I want to do. It is my goal to provide high quality entertainment for 2-4 dollars a piece to a mostly low-income audience, preferably with a live performance element. In so many words, I want to be on the midway, yes, for as long as I can. That being said, we don’t know each other. I have master degrees in both film and history and also work as a market research analyst. Unfortunately this season after a day of talking the front I had to hide in my van and do corporate work to complement my income – it was a schizophrenic nightmare I don’t wish on anybody. What I’m trying to say is, we all do what we can and many of us juggle (no pun intended) multiple careers before we are able to what we really want full time. I only mentioned the sideshow school film idea to say I am not opposed to the concept in itself. I did make a couple of videos this year by the way. This I want to continue to do (for the rest of my working life! I am a workaholic in case you haven’t noticed). I want to make documentaries about the history and reality of the circus and the sideshow in Brasil and the USA today – and thanks to the advent of HD video I can shoot and edit these projects while on the road. But, anyway, like I said, no beef here, hopefully none there either. Now will someone please make fun of Nipps for bringing up astrology? What, come on, no one thought that was funny? All right, I'm gonna shut up now (sorry, Nipps). |
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The Curator of the Unusual Inner circle Tampa FL 1399 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-11-17 15:42, Todd Robbins wrote: If I made a pilgrimage to Baltimore my time would be better spent shakin down 2 short peckered Friends (SS Historians)I know there for payment on a 2-Headed Wax Baby I traded them years ago that they never paid off on... So how much for just the Lecture notes?... or.. How bout I trade you straight up a set of BCS "Sexy Lady of the Sideshow" pitchcards we vend?... Trade?... I guess your right...The more Performers, The more Better Entertainment options for Spokane WA...
You come to a point in your life when you really don't care what people think about you, you just care what you think about yourself.
Evel Knievel contact: curatoroftheunusual@hotmail.com |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
I just want to say that I would consider it a real honor to meet Todd Robbins some day. This is a guy I've admired as an entertainer since long before I ever joined up with the Café. Then after I joined, almost 5 years ago, I never saw Todd stoop to joining in any of the petty fights that have gone on. He may have interjected a word of defense for his friends every now and then, but he never had to insult anyone to do it.
That's what I call a real professional. There are people here who feel it their life mission to put other people down. They make everything such a big deal that they take it out of the Café and into their personal lives. That is not professional. I've been pretty good about not speaking to or about these people for a long time, and all I've ever asked in return is for the same courtesy. I've never been important enough to be a threat to anybody here, so why they'd want to bait me is a mystery, and always will be. Heck, I'm not even performing right now, and won't be for at least the next 2.5 years. So I am really, really not a threat, unless you're planning to compete in the Highland Games or go for your PhD in clinical psychology anytime soon. Jim, I've asked you nicely not to talk about me. Nothing is binding you to comply, except common courtesy. Either you have it or you don't. If you choose not to be courteous then that's your deal. Use me as your therapy if you feel you must, but research shows punching bags make for poor anger management. You may have noticed that for my part, it's been a few months since I spoke of you. Even when that guy came on and said you invited him to your show and then sat around making fun of me all night the first time he'd ever met you, I didn't say a word about it because I figured we were politely ignoring each other by then and maybe he hadn't gotten the memo. But, given the baiting you're doing now, I see that's not the case. Anyway, I won't be talking about you to strangers or in my personal life at all. Never felt the need, just so you know. Jim, I'd prefer we never speak to, or about, each other again. I've said that before, and I still mean it. If you don't talk about me (or have anyone else do it for you,) I won't talk about you, that's a promise. I may not talk about you even if you do talk about me. No promises on that one though.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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The Curator of the Unusual Inner circle Tampa FL 1399 Posts |
While I was having a nice Conversation w/ my peer, (we are cut from the same cloth) Todd Robbins...
I got pelted in the back of the Head by a pebble... You put up a comment under 1 of my posts... What does Andersen Cooper have to do w/ anything?... What does a Star Trek character have to do w/ anything?... Oh! I get it! you think I was refering to YOU! (in Spokane)... WRONG!!!!... I was refering to these Guys!... http://galaxyparties.homestead.com/Clowns-Spokane-WA.html Now if you continue to Harrass me I will have to Report you to Mgmt.!...
You come to a point in your life when you really don't care what people think about you, you just care what you think about yourself.
Evel Knievel contact: curatoroftheunusual@hotmail.com |
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abigkahuna/1 Loyal user 274 Posts |
I'm grabbing some popcorn, this is gettin' interestin'...
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Kondini Inner circle 3609 Posts |
Im off to the Hamptons,,,,at my age even plastic tits are a turn on !!
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