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Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2537 Posts |
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On 2011-12-12 06:27, The Mighty Fool wrote: Well let's hope so - for everyone's sake. I can only talk of my own experiences here in the UK. Since I left school (1979) until 1997, the right-wing conservative party were in power. All we experienced during their tenure was a successive boom and bust economy. The country suffered the highest unemployment since the 1930's; British industries (especially coal, steel and textiles) were all but annihilated; crime was at a record high; there were millions of home-owners with negative equities; National Health Service waiting lists were at an all-time high..........jeez I could go on but I'm sure that you get the picture. Upon the election of Blair's Labour Government (and until the World recession hit) we saw year on year growth for the manufacturing and retail sectors, ultra-low unemployment, our schools churning out the best results in history, new hospitals built and waiting lists drastically reduced........again, I could go on. Now that the conservatives are back in power we are in a downward spiral of recession with the aforementioned capitalist failures again coming to the fore. The only people happy with the situation are the bankers (I could have easily misspelled that!). We've had a coalition govt. (conservative & liberal) for little over 18 months, and we already have the highest unemployment for 30 years with nearly 1 Million 18-24 year olds out of work. That sir, is an utter disgrace. Meanwhile, our growth is consistently lower than they predict month on month; HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS public sector jobs are due to be axed in 2012, building new homes is non-existent and the poverty trap is significantly increasing whilst the gap between the richest and the poorest is widening - yet again. Meanwhile, Cameron is absolutely clueless and is slowly taking this country into a downward spiral that it will take years to recover from. Forget about the theory and don't give me a history lesson. I know for a FACT that MY country works BETTER under a SOCIALIST, LABOUR GOVERNMENT.
Barry Allen
Over 14 years have passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
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JoeJoe Inner circle Myrtle Beach 1915 Posts |
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On 2011-12-12 04:42, Merc Man wrote: Despite the current "state" of our economy ... it is still the most successful economy anywhere in the world. Our economy is in better shape than Europe, Russia, Cuba, South America, and even China. Quote:
On 2011-12-12 04:42, Merc Man wrote: It is over ... capitalism won. Even China and Cuba are introducing capitalism into their economy under the code word "modernized economy". It is a better system, it produces better results. -JoeJoe
Amazing JoeJoe on YouTube[url=https://www.youtube.com/user/AmazingJoeJoe]
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Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2537 Posts |
JoeJoe - just like a typical right-winger, you pick and choose to respond to the points that suit.
I speak primarily for my country and if your were British old chap, you simply wouldn't have a justifiable argument. Ready JJ - sing along mate............. The people's flag is deepest red, It shrouded oft our martyr'd dead And ere their limbs grew stiff and cold, Their hearts' blood dyed its ev'ry fold Then raise the scarlet standard high, Within its shade we'll live and die, Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer, WE'LL KEEP THE RED FLAG FLYING HERE! Magically yours, Barry Allen - Working Class, Socialist.......and bloody proud of it!
Barry Allen
Over 14 years have passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
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The Mighty Fool Inner circle I feel like a big-top tent having 2140 Posts |
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On 2011-12-12 06:41, mastermindreader wrote: Jefferson WAS a bit of a socialist, along with a number of other un-flattering traits I could mention, but wont,because I've no doubt my interlocutor is aware of them. As to corporations being for the public good, I really don't think what they meant by 'common good' was 'government seizing all / most of the profits / products and distributing them among the wonderful masses'. He WAS dead-on right about the dangers of monopolies, and we all but had to fight another civil war to fix that issue in the early 1900's. I think what Tom and James meant was that buisinesses should be allowed to generate large profits and ammounts of goods as this will create a multi-product, varying-price market, and the profits will yeild large tax revenues even with a LOW percentage. BUT....if a buisiness' profit-seeking should ever represent a clear & present harm to the country, that harm should be addressed, punitively if necessary. This is precisely what we have. The reason the U.S. is so wealthy and has so many resources despite having a relatively low-rate tax system, is that profits are so high, the taxes don't NEED to be (high), and harmful buisiness practices are dealt with. Yes...SOME do get away with it from time-to-time, but hoping for a state in which ALL crimes are prevented / caught is a pipe-dream. Quote:
"Capitalism produces more and better of everything." Of course, the actual production is done by overseas workers to whom our corporations have farmed out our jobs. thus reducing the expendable income of those Americans who can no longer afford to buy their products. Corrupt socilaist unions make the cost of domestic labor artificialy high, whilst making the quality of their products socialisticly LOW, thus making overseas labor & products relatively attractive. Quote:
You remind me of those gilded age shipping moguls who declared "The Titanic is unsinkable." So just keep on rearranging the deck chairs while we "socialist slobs" try to save the ship. That WOULD be a cute metaphor, except that this 'Titanic' has already hit something like 3 dozen icebergs over the last 235 years, and it's still going. I'm not saying it's completely unsinkable....if we ever adopted socialism, THAT would sink it. Oh, we'd never have to worry about hitting another iceberg....because under socialism the ship would GO absolutely NOWHERE. It would just slowly sink un der it's own weight
Everybody wants to beleive.....we just help them along.
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The Mighty Fool Inner circle I feel like a big-top tent having 2140 Posts |
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On 2011-12-12 07:55, Merc Man wrote: Well, likewise I can only refer to MY own experiences here in the US, and capitalism works wonders for us. I'm not really read-up on most of the events youre describing, but when you say that Thatcher 'anihilated the British industries' I'm guessing you meant to say that she anihilated the UNIONS which were controlling those industries? And they then became more productive than ever? And...want it or not, here's your History lesson: Under capitalism, England was the most powerful nation in the history of civilization. All the crowned heads & govt's of Europe gazed upon them in wonder & envy. Not only was their industry, economy and military matchless, but they also produced some of the greatest philosophical, literary and scientific aheivements of all time including the ideals upon which MY country was founded!! (Locke) They were Rome-squared. (Today, when America tries it's hand at imperialism, global-economy-domination, and other power-plays, most European nations are filled with jealousy / fear, whilst the UK just shakes it's head and says "Been there...done that!") I cant say for sure exactly when / how they shifted to socialism, most beleive it was the devestation & poverty brought on by WWI which soured most of Europe on individualism. But, however it happened, this former Titan among nations is now....well....let's just say it is what it is.
Everybody wants to beleive.....we just help them along.
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Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2537 Posts |
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On 2011-12-12 14:41, The Mighty Fool wrote: No I DIDN'T mean to say that at all. Simply because under Thatcher: - Pits were CLOSED DOWN FOR GOOD - Ship yards were CLOSED DOWN FOR GOOD - Steel foundries and production works were CLOSED DOWN FOR GOOD - Massive sectors of the textile industry were CLOSED DOWN FOR GOOD It would take a miracle old chap to become more productive......when the industries no longer bloody exist!
Barry Allen
Over 14 years have passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
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epoptika Elite user Florida 477 Posts |
I can only say that "The Mighty Fool" could not possibly have chosen a more appropriate screen name.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
So his response is that Jefferson was a socialist, too.
Whatever... |
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The Mighty Fool Inner circle I feel like a big-top tent having 2140 Posts |
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On 2011-12-12 15:44, epoptika wrote: My my...what a well-thought out and articulate response which addresses & disproves all my stated points! Normally I'd have expected a brief, shallow insult of some sort.
Everybody wants to beleive.....we just help them along.
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Faulkner Loyal user New Orleans 249 Posts |
I went to a political forum and they started talking about a card trick...
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Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2537 Posts |
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On 2011-12-12 21:16, Faulkner wrote: Well let's hope that it doesn't use RED Cards.....or some people here will be too scared to try it!
Barry Allen
Over 14 years have passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Yes, by all means avoid the red cards.
And be wary of those seemingly communal thoughts written by Thomas "Bit of a Socialist" Jefferson (which he snuck into his original draft of the Declaration of Independence, probably at the behest of the prankster Ben Franklin): Quote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That obviously wasn't intended to be taken seriously or literally. What it really means is that we should always seek the greatest good for the greatest number. And, as any Wall Street banker or hedge fund manager can tell you, the greatest number is number ONE. And while you're at it, avoid reciting the Pledge of Allegiance because, in case you didn't know, it was written by the SOCIALIST Francis Bellamy. (Phrases like "with liberty and justice for all" only serve to encourage the rabble-rousing socialist slobs who take them seriously) And finally, ignore those words inscribed upon the Statue of Liberty which read: "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" We were only kidding. (Warrants are being issued for the Socialist or practical joker who translated that into Spanish.) Peace and Love- |
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Mario Morris Inner circle Mario Morris 2044 Posts |
[/quote]
Well let's hope so - for everyone's sake. I can only talk of my own experiences here in the UK. Since I left school (1979) until 1997, the right-wing conservative party were in power. All we experienced during their tenure was a successive boom and bust economy. The country suffered the highest unemployment since the 1930's; British industries (especially coal, steel and textiles) were all but annihilated; crime was at a record high; there were millions of home-owners with negative equities; National Health Service waiting lists were at an all-time high..........jeez I could go on but I'm sure that you get the picture. Upon the election of Blair's Labour Government (and until the World recession hit) we saw year on year growth for the manufacturing and retail sectors, ultra-low unemployment, our schools churning out the best results in history, new hospitals built and waiting lists drastically reduced........again, I could go on. Now that the conservatives are back in power we are in a downward spiral of recession with the aforementioned capitalist failures again coming to the fore. The only people happy with the situation are the bankers (I could have easily misspelled that!). We've had a coalition govt. (conservative & liberal) for little over 18 months, and we already have the highest unemployment for 30 years with nearly 1 Million 18-24 year olds out of work. That sir, is an utter disgrace. Meanwhile, our growth is consistently lower than they predict month on month; HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS public sector jobs are due to be axed in 2012, building new homes is non-existent and the poverty trap is significantly increasing whilst the gap between the richest and the poorest is widening - yet again. Meanwhile, Cameron is absolutely clueless and is slowly taking this country into a downward spiral that it will take years to recover from. Forget about the theory and don't give me a history lesson. I know for a FACT that MY country works BETTER under a SOCIALIST, LABOUR GOVERNMENT. [/quote] I agree with all you say other than Blaire, he set the wheels in motion and now we are in the state we in. Being a Welsh man I have a bone to pick with Thatcher, but new Labour or what ever else they like to call them selfs is a Tory glove puppet. Does not matter who you vote for the government all ways seem get in! POWER TO THE PEPOLE, What does this have to do with Magic - Misdirection. That is why in victorian times The Magician where often depicted in cartoons like paintins reflecting the politician deception. |
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Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2537 Posts |
Can't agree Mario. Blair is the greatest PM that I've ever known during my lifetime. I also think it's unfair to blame either Blair or Brown for us being victims of a World Recession; albeit analysts are now saying that Brown's plan for financial recovery were sound (and the situation in the U.K. WAS improving before he was voted out of office).
Now I'm not blinkered into believing that everything Labour introduced was fantastic. On a selfish (and minor) note, the smoking ban really annoyed me by removing my rights to have a fag with my pint! Moreover, and I don't want to upset our American friends, but my biggest disappointment with Blair was taking this country to war with Iraq & Afghanistan - wars that were after all more to do about oil than freedom and democracy. I'd also LOVE to have more Labour M.P.'s like Dennis Skinner - I am, at heart 'Old Labour' and definitely more left than centre believe me! That said, Blair HAD TO re-model the Labour Party to appeal to the 'floating voter' or we would NEVER have seen the Labour Party with the opportunity to govern. With all due respect mate, the fact that he won THREE elections (never before achieved by a Labour Govt.) really says something about his popularity and success in most people's eyes, doesn't it? So there we go - we now have a coalition with Cameron & Clegg; two of the most clueless and incompetent politicians I've ever experienced running our Country. I don't know if you saw Panorama this week but to give you some idea of Cameron - the man. In the summer, along with George Osbourne (Chancellor of the Exchequer) he visited Bombardier - a train manufacturing company in Derby (East Midlands). He addressed the 3,000 strong workforce and gave his promise and commitment that his government's promise was to provide backing for industrial manufacturer's such as Bombardier. Within a few weeks, 1,400 of the 3,000 workforce were made redundant. Why? because his wonderful tory government had awarded a major new train building contract to Siemans - based in Germany. So not only is this man an incompetent liar, he is also clearly a TRAITOR to Great Britain. But worst of all, my personal criticism is Clegg - the leader of the Liberal Party. With a manifesto that made Labour's look positively right-wing in places, this man has gone against every value that his party were committed to and subsequently sold out the soul of his party; in order to get into bed with Mr. Cameron. I'm quite sure that these two aren't being termed 'The Brokeback Coalition' for nothing!
Barry Allen
Over 14 years have passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
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Devious Inner circle 2120 Posts |
Just sayin'. |
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Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2537 Posts |
Title for that picture could very well be:
'The Quality Control Manager at the USPCC hard at work'
Barry Allen
Over 14 years have passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
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Devious Inner circle 2120 Posts |
Does the work of The United States Playing Card Company,
no longer meet your standards? |
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Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2537 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-12-14 11:15, Devious wrote: Reading other people's comments upon this forum, I don't think they meet ANYONE'S standards. You obviously don't visit 'The Workers' section much mate!
Barry Allen
Over 14 years have passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
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Devious Inner circle 2120 Posts |
Fair enough Mr. Mercedes Man,
I just wanted to know of your personal experiences with them. Do the British have a playing card company mate? Signed, Lamborghini Man |
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ringmaster Inner circle Memphis, Down in Dixie 1974 Posts |
What has all these political opinions by expatiate Brit busker who don't pay tax anyway, got to do with performing near Occupy Wall Street demonstrations ?
No wonder Danny left. Moderator please.
One of the last living 10-in-one performers. I wanted to be in show business the worst way, and that was it.
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